Name of rifling on Jaeger Rifle

[Diz]

I have watched the video about shooting the Jaeger rifle and would like to know if there is a name for the specific type of rifling used in this gun. The rifling profile at the muzzle is very distinct and would like to know more about it. Who developed it, where and when? It appears to work quite well.

Thanks, Dis

[Leatherman]

Here in modern barrel rifling we call it round bottom rifling. I have muzzle loaders I have built that have this type rifling. There are those who claim it cleans easier than square cut rifling. Accuracy seems to be the same. I like the look of it at the muzzle especially with a little creative filing with triangle file it makes an attractive design .

[Axel E]

There is no specific name for such rifling, except the generic term "muzzleloader rifling". Nor is an "inventor" known. The first rifled barrels appeared about 1450 to 1500, variously ascribed to gunmakers in Nuremberg, Leipzig or Vienna. Remember, that Jaeger rifle was made about 1780 to 1800. At that time there were no patents. Rifling barrels was a little understood art. Noone even knew for sure what makes a rotating ball shoot straighter. A then still serious theory was: A little devil rides each ball shot from a smoothbore and steers it according to his evil intentions. But such devils fall off a rotating ball. Each gunsmith had his own ideas regarding groove numbers, shapes, depth and rifling twist. Result were a matter of trial and error. These ideas, especially working recipes, were handled as trade secrets and forwarded from master to apprentice, most often son, only. Further, it was common practice to "fresh out", rebore and rerifle, worn or rusted barrels during their working time. The circles as seen on the muzzle of the Aachen rifle served as indicators for the "freshed" condition of a barrel. So the rifled bore now seen in such old barrels may be the second or third, after it left the original maker.
Many of these old barrels may deceive a casual observer looking at the muzzle only. To facilitate loading patched balls, many barrels show deep, rounded grooves at the muzzle. But these groove quickly taper down to much shallower, square ones within an inch or two from the muzzle.

[Diz]

Axel & Leatherman,

Thanks for your comments about the rifling. I am particularly surprised by the comment Axel makes about the rifling changing from the deep rounded grooves to shallow typical rifling below. It must have been very difficult to cut that type of change back then and describes a very high level of skill in barrel making. I was thinking that the small deep grooves would make black powder fouling very difficult to clean. If I get the opportunity to look at one I will be sure to check deeper into the bore.

It’s all very interesting but I’m afraid that the occasional devil still manages to hang onto some of my bullets.

Thanks again, Diz

[sharps4590]

Need a faster twist to throw the devil off......

[osekerschan]

Need a faster twist to throw the devil off......

No it is the other way! The original test used lead balls which proved accurate, and the control was balls cast of silver and stamped with a cross which were inaccurate. Thus proving once and for all times that the devils were guiding the lead balls to cause mayhem but could not ride on the balls of blessed balls of silver because it is a pure metal.

[Diz]

I am constantly amazed by the knowledge presented on this forum. Where else could truth and fairy tales combine to make the most interesting and informative reading on the net. It is much appreciated by me. Thanks, Diz

[Leatherman]

As Axel explained, to make it easier to start a patched ball in the muzzle a lot of barrels were what we call coned at the muzzle. That is the bore was flared out about the last 3/4" enough that the patched ball could be started down the bore by pressing with ones thumb. This eliminated the need to use a ball starter and one could just use the ram rod to continue the ball down the barrel. If the barrel was rifled with square bottom rifling the grooves were filed round bottom in as far as could be done by hand. Possibly to help eliminating cutting the patch as well as helping to compress the ball and patch into the rifling. I have all my muzzle loading barrels coned and filed as I learned this really works.

[sharps4590]

Fairly tales? I didn't see any fairy tales...oskerschan speaks a truth that had slipped my mind....

[Diz]

Leatherman,

That bit of detail regarding the taper is exactly what I needed to clear this up. I couldn’t figure out how you could possibly machine the transition between the small deep groove at the muzzle and wide shallow grooves in the rifling without some sort of clearance. The taper makes perfect sense and is easy to visualize. I have very little experience with muzzle loading guns but enjoy learning about all types of firearms.

Sharps,

And you take all the blame for leading me into black powder cartridge rifles. So what do we do about those little devils?

Thanks, Diz

[sharps4590]

Precisely what oskerschan said, silver bullets.....

[Diz]

Sharps, I'll have to melt down some of my IRA coins for that! As I remember, Coonan Arms actually made and sold silver jacketed 357 ammo for awhile during the anti-zombie craze. Now I think they are protected. Interesting where a question can take you sometimes. Thanks, Diz

[Axel E]

Because of this ongoing discussion about muzzleloader rifling I reread H.-D.Götz' German book on the military long arms of the German states 1800 – 1870. Why a book on military rifles when the discussion is about Jäger rifles? In German, other than Jagdbüchse = hunting rifle, Jägerbüchse most often means a military rifle. "Jäger/Jaeger" in German is not only a hunter, but a name for light infantry too, called "Rifles" in Britain or "Rangers" in America. The Landgraf of Hesse-Cassel was the first who, in the 1630s, assembled his foresters, gamekeepers and professional hunters into a special unit of sharpshooters. In the American Revolutionary war the Hessian Jägercorps fought on the British side, the dreaded Greencoats. Originally, Jäger brought their hunting rifles into military service. But soon most Jäger had to be issued rifles by the states,originally all shooting patched round balls. Shape and number of grooves varied, usually 7. Bores varied from about .55 to .70". Rifling twist of the civilian and early issue rifles varied from 16 – 28". In civilian use they were usually loded with 45 – 60 gr BP charges.
During the Napoleonic wars, 1800 – 1815, most German armies had Jäger units of their own, with very mixed results. As usual even today, higher ranking conventional Line Infantry officers disregarded such special forces as unmilitary and disobeiant, often not following established rules. In the case of the Jäger rifles, such officers often insisted on the rifles loaded with at least the same powder charges as prescribed for their smoothbore muskets. A sorry example happened in the Bavarian army: After Austria's defeat the Bavarian Jäger were issued ex-Austrian rifles, well liked and accurate in Austrian hands. But Bavarian higher echelons ordered these rifles to be loaded with much heavier powder charges than the Austrians had used. Loaded so, the rifles were even less accurate than the smoothbore muskets. A young lieutenant dared to report: He had tested the rifles with just half the prescribed charge and obtained fine accuracy. He was heavily reprimanded for shooting the issue rifle with another than the prescribed service charge. An early exception was the British 1800 Baker rifle, .615". It shot a 108 gr charge behind the patched round ball. But this rifle featured 7 groove rifling with a very slow twist, one turn in 3 yards! The Jäger of the King's German Legion, refugees from Hanover and Brunswick, were issued a variant with a shorter, 36" twist, like the Prussian rifles, but used much lower charges in the German tradition.
New flintlock Jägerbüchsen models of 1820s had twist rates of 1 in 32", but the transition to percussion ignition changed things again. Due to the faster ignition and more effective powder burn, charges for existing rifles had to be reduced again, or the rifling twist had to be lengthened. The last and most advanced Jägerbüchse using patched round balls was the southern German Wild's design of 1840: .660 bore, 14 square grooves deepened to round at the muzzle, 1 turn in 39". Within the next decade all these patched round ball rifles were superseded by the designs of Delvigne, Thouvenin, Minie and others, using elongated bullets needing a faster twist again.
My conclusion: If you have a barrel with a "short" rifling twist, shorter than 1 in 30", and want to use patched round balls, adjust the powder charge down.

[Diz]

Axel,

Thanks very much for adding these details. I had to go looking for more information on the “Green Coats” as your comment sparked my interest. History is important and I admit not knowing enough about it. I found some very interesting things about the Hessian-Jager Green Coats and an even more interesting quote that was supposed to have come directly from George Washington himself after seeing the Green Coats in action on the battlefield. General Washington rated them “best in the world” as fighting men and that is high praise indeed. I wanted to post a picture that supposedly depicts a Hessian Jager officer and rifleman but I couldn't get the insert to work. Perhaps later.

I really appreciate your taking the time to explore this subject further and post your findings. As I have said before, there is a lot to be learned on this forum.

Thanks, Diz

[Leatherman]

Interesting history on rifling and powder charges from the early German side. We have been taught over here that when the
German emigrant gunmakers came to the colonies and started producing gun barrels they soon found out the primitive black powder being produced here, as there was an imbargo on the import of BP from the British, was not as fast burning as the powder produced in the old world so in order that the necessary velocity be reached they needed to lengthen the barrels and lengthen the twist of the rifling . Thus the Pennsylvania long rifle was eventually developed. Over the next two hundred years most barrel makers here settled on twist rates of 48" to 70" with smaller calibers having faster twist normally. Today the same pretty much applies but most patched round ball barrels are made with a 66" twist rate for 45 and larger calibers. The powder charges again should not exceed 90 grains on the larger calibers as accuracy starts to suffer. But there are still a lot of people who don't know better and figure more is better, faster, and put way too much powder in their muzzle loaders. There are commercial muzzle loaders made with barrels made in 28" to 48" rates of twist. These usually do not shoot a round patched ball well but these guns were made to shoot the conical lead balls that the manufacturer also sells such as the maxi balls.