Steyr sporting rifle

[sharps4590]

Momma has given her permission for me to get my Christmas present. This Steyr is in the running but I am a little ignorant of the magazine.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100769709

Admittedly my computer skills are sorely lacking and I haven't been able to find anything about the.....magazine and its loading. Somewhere in the dim recesses of my now feeble memory it seems I remember this rifle taking an "en bloc" clip. If such is the case then the clips are going to be needed to use the rifle. First, am I right? Secondly, if I am, is there a source for the clips? Any help appreciated.

Vic

[mike ford]

Vic,
This is the Steyr version of the Mod 88 Commission rifle, and would use the same clips. I couldn't see any sign of M88/05/14 conversion to use Mauser stripper clips. It would also be 8x57I. It looks like a really nice rifle. Let us know if you get it.
Mike

[Axel E]

This "Steyr" rifle is in fact built on a German M88 "Commission rifle " action. Though Steyr made a lot of military rifles on this action, most sporters were made by Suhl gunmakers like Haenel, V.C.Schilling and many individual gunsmithes. Reproduction clips (Numrich errs in calling them "stripper clips") are availble, http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/3050.htm . Thes repro clips often need reworking, as they are made from thicker metal: The front end has to be thinned, either by grinding or by simply hammering the flange flatter. The need for such a modification depends on the individual rifle.

[Axel E]

There was an article on such M88 action "Mannlicher - Haenel" sporters in Waidmannsheil! Nr. 50

[sharps4590]

Just FMI, am I understanding correctly that it uses the same type ol' stripper clips that every other bolt action military rifle of the era used? The "en block" clip I'm thinking of must then be for a different Steyr?

I passed on it and took the one I wanted in the first place.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100770804

[mike ford]

Vic,
No, the rifle does use "en block" clips. As Axel stated above, Gun Parts Corp. mis-labeled them. As I mentioned above, the rifle does not show the 05/14 conversions that would be necessary for them to use Mauser stripper clips. Now I will have to look at the rifle you took.
The MS Mod 1908 looks nice too. Now, you can weigh in on the 8x56 vs 8x57 discussions on the 5.6x61 vh SE thread.
Mike

[Dan Patch]

I think that in the U.S. it would be preferable to use the more-or-less readily available original German en bloc clips to Numrich's offering. I assume they're pretty durable in terms of multiple re-use; certainly I've found the Dutch-made clips for their 1895 arms to hold up really well. Dan

[sharps4590]

Dan, can you offer a source for the clips? Tom at Crosnoe was ignorant of a source and so am I and he expressed a desire to find probably at least a couple to go with the rifle. I'd like to pass on the info to him if you do know. I've not seen them anywhere but, truth be told, I wouldn't know them if I did.

Mike, that 8 X 57 pretty well mops the floor with the 8 X 56, doesn't it? According to the ballistics I've been reading it appears that way. 'Course, there's more about both cartridges I don't know than do. Boy, it's tough being stupid....and then you have to be tough to survive it!!!.......

[mike ford]

Vic,
The discussion on the other thread was about a Mod 1908 that chambers 8x57 ammo and whether it has been rechambered or if tolerances allowed this. The question was broached due to high pressure signs with 8x57 ammo. In proper rifles, the 8x57 is more powerful than the 8x56, but I wouldn't say it "mops the floor". It is really a pretty good cartridge too.
Mike

[Dan Patch]

Sharps: No, I don't know a ready source of original '88 clips, but I have seen them mentioned from time to time on the military arms forums as having turned up at gun shows. Original German military clips were finished with a dark tan to brown tinted lacquer (as I suppose it is). Another original clip seen occasionally was of Czech manufacture, having no lacquer coating but bearing an M within a semicircle on the spine. The German-made clips typically have a single letter or symbol on the spine to ID the maker. Dan

[sharps4590]

Ahhh..ok Mike. In doing a little reading on the cartridge and rifle it appears that some 1908's will chamber the 8 X 57. Those were internet blurbs on sites I'm unfamiliar with so beyond that I don't know how true they are or if those rifles had been re-chambered. The poster's seemed confident the rifles were original. More than one poster mentioned being able to use 8 X 57 brass to make 8 X 56 and not having to swage the head. Others mentioned using the brass after having to swage the head. Form the tone of the posts it certainly appeared they knew what they were talking about.

Browsing the ballistics of the two cartridges I want to remember there was 300-500 fps difference for the same weight bullet. You're right, no, that isn't mopping the floor but is quite a difference. Them being so close in dimension the X 57 pressures have to be some higher. Whether or not the M/S action will take it I can't say....nor do I intend to find out! Right now I don't know the pressures for which either action is rated. I always load for the best load at least amount of pressure anyway so for me it's rather moot. I stopped chasing velocity decades ago....lol!!

[Diz]

Sharps, I found the latest CIP maximum average pressure for the 8 x 56 MS as 3200 Bar, Thanks, Diz

[sharps4590]

Thanks Diz!!! I had to convert it to understand it. 46K+ psi. I assumed that but did not know it. Ammo arrived yesterday. Interesting outcome. I'll have to elaborate later.

[mike ford]

Vic,
If you have or can borrow some 8x57 commercial ammo( or military if OAL allows it), how about seeing if it will chamber in your rifle( w/o firing it). and let us know the results.
Mike

[sharps4590]

I did that Mike, I believe last week I picked up 4 rounds at the LGS more to compare head diameter on actual brass rather than out of a book. Oh...I did pull one bullet from them and saw for the first time German flake powder...easy to see why it's called that!! The bullet was 174 grs. I believe and just a spire point hunting round, no TUG or anything. I tried yesterday to see if the 8 X 57 would chamber and no sir, too big in diameter just below the shoulder and I don't know about the rest of the body, just that it wouldn't go. I'll be in the shop today, miserable outside here, and I'm going to measure the fired case and the Mauser case to compare where they are, just for my edification.

I fired 4 rounds of the Buffalo Arms ammo and two cases had the ring just in front of the web indicating an incipient separation. I drug a sharpened, bent coat hanger through the inside of the case and you could easily feel the incipient separation. The other two cases were fine, nothing, inside or out that I could detect. Primers were just a bit flattened but nothing that would be of concern. The edges were still round. I pulled 3 bullets and weighed the charge at 43 grs. of what looked similar to IMR-4895. I don't know that. That is just how it looked. I recharged the cases with the same powder but two grains lighter and fired them. The recoil and report were discernibly different. No great shakes but definitely apparent. Primers were still nice and round and no ring on any of the 3. The primer was protruding just a bit, you could feel it more than see it. I suspect the chamber is just a bit long. No worries, I can fix that a couple ways. My 1903 load worked up pretty easy but the rifle had other issues. This 1908 has none of the stock problems the 1903 had but does have minor chamber challenges. Kinda like all the others, it's why we fool with them. I'm confident all can be rectified. As always I'm open to any suggestions or critiques.