CG Haenel reference material

[Nathaniel Myers]

Hello all,

I have been doing some reasearch when I have free time concerning the firm CG Haenel and their production pre WWI. While my interest is primarily their sporting weapons, I believe there is much to be learned from studying their military contracts and manufacturing history as well.

Our member Axel has been a great help in starting me out, but I am hoping other members have good information as well. I would like to start by asking for general resources. I hope from this our research will become more focused with pointed questions to drive after.

I do ask one thing, I would like to keep this discussion as academic as possible. While known knowledge is also helpful, cited material is always best. If you have specific information, please try to provide its source.

Lastly, would a member in Germany be willing to travel to the Suhl Museum to digitize any archival material on Haenel, OR does anyone have this material? My understanding so far is due to the Soviet occupation there is little to no information remaining from Haenel. I would happy to help offset travel expenses and costs for one of our members in Germany. I know that unfortunately I will likely never be able to visit Suhl.

I will be doing a survey soon to gather more statistical information to compile and compare. Axel has already graciously offered to review my conclusions and has provided me with some fantastic resources.

I hope this thread can expand to help all of us who are students of these fine German arms.

[Steve Whitley]

First of all, the Waffenmuseum is not where you really want to go. Although Peter Arfmann is very helpful and cooperative with researchers, the museum has practically nothing to offer in archive material. The source for the old files of the gun makers is the Thüingisches Staatsarchiv Meiningen, with all of the firearms related records kept at the Depot in Suhl (in an old jail/prison building). One must gain access through the main office in Meiningen, and then the days and hours of entry to the Depot and its material are quite limited.
The archive there is an indescribable wealth of information, including correspondence, catalogs, blueprints, photos, contracts, documents, invoices, etc. Before I get your hopes up too high, however, I must add that there are more files remaining for some firms (such as J.P. Sauer, and for Simson/BSW/Gustloff) than for others. Unfortunately, there is relatively little in the files for Haenel. Still, I found Haenel material in addition to their own remaining files by going through the records of some of the other companies. One very helpful example was a correspondence file between Haenel and Sauer from 1934, as they were trying to organize the Suhl consortium for producing K98k rifles. That file had letters from both firms, to and from each other, and to the other prospective members of the group being formed. Since the arms firms interacted with one another on many things, and often used the same materials suppliers, etc., there are other opportunities to find records for the Haenel firm.
The amount of material there is STAGGERING, and they had only begun trying to enter files into a digital database when I was last there (almost three years ago). I will be most glad to share what material I have from the firm, and can also give you some additional sources and resources if you wish. Most of the researchers with whom I have dealt have been most helpful and willing to share information with others. Some few are a bit guarded about such, but they are the exception rather than the rule.
Steve

[Steve Whitley]

Also, as well as the state archives, the city of Suhl maintains an archive which holds the revenue records of the Beschussamt. These contain no serial number records, but do show which firms had how many of which firearms proofed on given days, and resultant charges for that service. Since many of these old records are HANDWRITTEN in old script, be prepared for that factor. Also, unlike the western portion of the country which has been flooded with English-speaking people since the war, you will find it necessary to either be able to speak/read the language yourself, or have someone with you who can. Very, very few people in that area know English.
Steve

[Steve Whitley]

Any surviving records will be housed here.

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[Nathaniel Myers]

Mr. Whitley,

I am absolutely blown away by your response! Thank you! Any and all information you can give me would be MUCH appreciated.

I had the same notion of reconstructing much of the Haenel information from the other side as you mentioned. While Haenel records and information may be limited, finding and tracking the interaction will often times tell you nearly as much.

Much of the surrounding groups of companies will provide me with some of the information I am looking for. For instance, I have found several rifles with striking similarities, both produced by CG Haenel and VC Schilling that appear to have been made down to identical proof marks, even the font and location of the number stampings (easily explained they purchased their stamps from the same maker) a number of details that point to me as having been assembled at the same location, using the same component suppliers.

If you drown me in information I will die a happy man.

Mr. Whitley I will PM you directly to start correspondence.

[Steve Whitley]

Will send a reply to your email this morning. Always glad to help, and to share information!
Steve