What is this method of finish called?

[Nathaniel Myers]

According to Kellner & Pape, Wilhelm Kunna, Magazinstr. 6, Koblenz, passed his gunsmith master exam in 1933, rated "good", but not "excellent". He died in 1945.

Axel,

What is this reference? With a google search I find references to it (from you?) but I cannot find the document/book?

Kcordell, in light of what others have said, I would add this. The "black" finish to me, appears to be a more modern finish. It is hard to tell from your pictures. It could have been hot salt blued, but most likely blacked as the british call it. (Rust Blueing here in the states) And again, this is hard to tell from the photo's, but the gold inlays do not have the same artistic "flow" as the engraving. They do not quite match for quality or style. In my humble opinion, they look as though they were added after completion. The spacing and location is pleasing.... but crowded.

[kcordell]

Nathaniel,

Thanks for your post. The fact that it could have been refinished is very plausible. To me, either or (done by Kenna or done by someone else later) is fine but I'm holding my cards on the later. After inspection of this Meffert, its very evident that the gun has not be shot very much if at all...its very, very tight, almost no wear around the firing pins, trigger horn is flawless and not scratched in any manner...etc... I also could not believe that someone would invest $$ to rehab this gun back to almost new...it's not like its a Westley Richards, Purdey or some other famous maker. Aside from the fact, if it was refinished in the UK or States, why would someone put W. Kunna Koblenz on the barrel? It most likely was not made for US export due to the sling swivels and cheek rest....could have been sent to the UK? I am just using deductive reasoning but again, here to learn and more then anything, love hashing out possibilities on this forum with the guys....that is what makes this hobby for me. Per Axel's comment on Kunna being rated as a "GOOD" rather then "BEST" would also lend credibility to the quality of the lines and finish?

Net/Net, I am taking this to the field for pheasant and quail here soon. So it will start getting some use as for what it was made for.

[Axel E]

kcordell, Kunna did not make your gun. He merely retailed it.

[Diz]

Sticking my neck out a bit but I don't believe it was refinished and if it was it had to be done by someone with extraordinary talent as the engraving is still very sharp in all the visible areas. Possibly re-cut but I doubt that. The rib joint shows what seems like slight discoloration and this to me shows a certain age to the job. Interesting speculations. Could it be that all or part of the decoration was added later? Thanks, Diz

[kcordell]

kcordell, Kunna did not make your gun. He merely retailed it.

Axel, I fully understand. Imman Meffert made it....Kunna retailed and could have possibly embellished with the additional "blacking" and gold work.

[Nathaniel Myers]

Diz,

You may be correct. Just remember, rust bluing does not REQUIRE (it is advised) a full repolish. I have in the past reblued rifles without doing any prep work at all other than a thorough degreasing. I may be weird, but as a machinist, I like to see the original tooling and manufacturing marks. I rarely like to repolish a rifle when refinishing to retain its original appearance. I have a rifle in the shop right now that I have to repolish. It pains me because it is a such a beautiful rifle. BUT, somewhere along the line it received an "American" polish job with a wheel and someone gave it a high polish and lots of rounded corners. If they had not done that, and the finish was merely worn, I would have just rust blued it as it.

[Diz]

Nathaniel,

You have reveled on of my secrets as I do a lot of work on Damascus guns and hate to polish unless absolutely necessary. I use "Naval Jelly" to strip the old blue and any rust, leaving a perfect surface for rust bluing. Any engraving remains perfectly intact. A cheap trick but works. I hate to see fine guns cut to ribbons on the polishing wheel.

Thanks, Diz

[Steve Whitley]

Diz,
Can you even BUY naval jelly any more? Last time I tried, the only thing available was so timid that it was worthless. Used to be a great product.
Steve

[mike ford]

I have used "Sure Kleen", which is a brick cleaner, it removes bluing and everything. It has to be applied then washed off right away. It should be tested on small areas first, since it is a mixture of acids and long exposure will cause rusting.
Mike

[Steve Whitley]

That would work, I'm sure. The Naval Jelly used to have phosphoric ? acid in it, I think, but last I knew it was a "child safe" and worthless concoction.
Steve

[Diz]

Steve,

You are right as the latest Naval Jelly's are a shadow of the original but I have used both Duro and Locktite brand of so called Naval Jelly with fair success. I like them because they are gels and much easier to spot treat heavier areas before doing the whole part. Plus when you spot the adjacent blue is unaffected and can often be blended in with a good cold blue. I tried Brownells dip treatment and it worked but I think "Metal Rescue" is better as far as liquids go. These products leave a very fine almost satin finish on the clean metal that takes rust blue very well and leaves a pleasing finish. Certainly slower acting than the original but leaves more time to work it and less liable to cause issues. This is just my opinion and others may have better products they would mention.

Mike, I am going to give Sure Kleen a try, I have a couple of old receivers to test it on and will let you know how I make out. Thanks for another valuable tip.

Best, Diz

[mike ford]

Diz,
It comes in large containers for contractor's use; see if you can get a small amount from a local masonry contractor. What I use is from a contractor's "Submittal", rather than throwing it away after completion. Since I used it on small items(pistol parts), I used it "full strength". Maybe you could dilute it so it wouldn't be as aggressive and you could use it in a tank, for a little longer time. Be sure to wash it all off.
Mike

[Diz]

Mike,

A mason friend of mine told me about a supplier that sells it by the gallon so I may try to get some that way. I have been experimenting with tumbling parts using ceramic media to finish clean and polish and it looks promising so far.

Thanks again, Diz

[mike ford]

Diz,
The gallon containers are what I considered "large", since at full strength, it hardly took any at all. As an aside, I also used it to "rust" parts I made as replacements on antique guns. I just put a few drops in a small jar, with the part "blocked up" out of the liquid and the top screwed on. I only had to leave it overnight to get matching rust.
Mike

[Nathaniel Myers]

Brownells rust remover product works very well, in my experience, for stripping blue. It strips EVERYTHING so excercise caution.

It's expensive but lasts a long time and many uses.