5.6 vH update

[mike ford]

Nathaniel,
I wrote about my 5.6x61R in "Waidmannsheil", and I chronographed a factory round at considerably less than the advertised velocity. Subsequent chronographing of another factory cartridge from a different source was very close to the first one at much less than advertised velocity. In my own handloads, I got to within a couple hundred feet/second of advertised velocity with available bullets, but it shot patterns, rather than groups. It would shoot acceptable groups at around 3000 fps( which, oddly, was pretty close to factory velocity, with a little heavier bullet). With 80 grain bullets( bumped up by a friend) I could get much closer to advertised velocity than factory ammo did, but this time with good groups. My rifle is very special to me, considering it's source ( explained in WMH article), so I avoid higher pressures. BTY advertised velocity was in the area of 3400 fps for the rimmed version, and 3700 for rimless, with 77gr bullet. I have friends that also shoot .223s with 75 grain bullets, but as I recall they report more like 2600-2800 fps. Maybe you could chronograph some of your friends ammo with your chronograph in your own rifle and report the velocity, load, and barrel length. Diz could then run it through his program and determine the pressure. This difficulty to reach advertised velocity is common to American calibers also. I never came close with my 218 Mashburn, I just use it as a cast bullet gun now. Accordingly, we shouldn't be too hard on the 5.6x61.
Mike

[wernerhelm]

Diz is correct that my chamber was smaller and the brass i used on the last go around were being fire formed. So with correct fire formed brass I would think the velocity will go up a little. My intent is to prolong barrel life-- it was made in 1942 and the rifling is very crisp--so loading it to the maximum pressure and speed is not a major priority for me. The Texas hill country deer that I hunt may weight 130-140lbs on the hoof so the 5.6 should do ok. If I feel the need to have more power I'll just use my 9.3X62!
Colin

[Axel E]

All the vom Hofe Super Express cartridges are overrated paper tigers. Nobody ever measured the advertized velocities when factory loads were shot from real rifles over real chronographs. Apparently old Ernst – August vom Hofe shot his loads from absurdly long barrels over a typewriter to achieve the velocities he published. Remember, this was in the 1930s when nobody outside ammo factories and proofhouses had worthwhile equipment. At the same time American wildcatters too claimed wildly exaggerated velocities for their creations.
The advertized velocity of the 5.6x61 with the 77 gr bullet was 3700 fps. Factory loads rarely exceeded 3300 fps, more than 10 % less. The top velocities within max presssure listed by German handloading books are:
RWS: 70 gr at 3470 fps ( 52 gr R904)
DEVA: 70 gr at 3543 fps (41.5 gr IMR 4831), 77 gr at 3510 fps (61 gr H870 or 53.2 gr IMR 4831)

[Kiwi_bloke]

I'm not disagreeing that salesmen exaggerated velocity figures until chronographs became common, however early rifle barrels were often much longer because the open sights were considered more accurate if their sighting base was longer - even with slower calibres like 6,5mm Mannlicher. I still see this trend at the smallbore clubs today, where someone fits a long carbon fibre bore extension to get his front sight even further away. But also the powders of the 30's needed more barrel to develop their full potential, if absolute top velocities were the goal. When these early vom Hofe guns come up for sale, this added difference is obvious.

Although a little is known about EA vom Hofe, who he worked with, where and when, and also where and when he died, he is still a bit of a mystery man as I have never seen a photograph of him, for instance.

[Nathaniel Myers]

Thanks for all the responses! I am glad no one took offense. It is a very interesting cartridge and a fascinating history. I suppose part of the interest is the not knowing.

Mike,

I actually do not own a 223, well, I do own an AR and a "retro" (I guess thats what they call them) AR.

While I have not fired the 223 in question, I have seen pictures of the rifle and chrony with the string of shots fired. I also believe its owner implicitly as I shot with him for some time and we have been friends for some time.

I have two very close friends who are fantastic rifle builders and incredible shooters. They both reload what I consider amazing ammunition with speed and ease that I will never match. I had built a .260 recently and had decent groups at about 3/4" at 100 yds. The one thought that was unacceptable and down right terrible. We had breakfast one sunday morning and he worked up loads while he was cooking breakfast and I would take them out and shoot a group. In the time it took him to cook bacon, eggs, and hash for the two of us he had my group down to a little under 1/2" at 100 yds. He then shot the rifle and proceeded to shoot about a 3/8" group with it.

These guys have confirmed kills on prarie dogs at ranges that are beyond me even fathoming. I believe the current record is 1505 yds.

I say all of that only to give credence to the statement of 77gr bullets at 3000 fps.

[mike ford]

Kiwi_bloke,
Now that you have both the rimmed and rimless versions, we would all be interested in your methods and the results of your loads.
Mike

[Kiwi_bloke]

Hi Mike

In prep. There's also a Walter Roell 5,6x61 SEvH and a Mauser 66 in 7x66 SE vH. As my mate Paul said, "you've cornered the market"! They're both up and shooting and both very accurate and on the button with their velocities, (albeit the smaller calibre did not perform well with H870). I was shooting on a windy day at the range, (I had to weight the chronograph stand to stop it all blowing over), and the 5,6x61SEvH made a nice group when several other normally accurate rifles just splayed their bullets over their targets.

I have some loading data here from several sources and I have the key powers listed. I just ordered some Bertram rimmed cases from Australia. The W. Gehmann Drilling is a Kurz (short) barrel version, 59.5cm, (23,1/2"). So it will be interesting to see what velocities I get. (The Mauser rifle is the standard 25,1/2" barrel). I had a Sauer Kurz-Drilling with this barrel length and it was handy for jump-shooting gamebirds.

So I'll keep you posted.

[Diz]

Kiwi_bloke,

Just wondering what problems you had with H-870? That always seemed to work best for me until Hodgdon stopped making it and I had to find something else.

Thanks, Diz