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Changing brass neck size up or down by very small amounts.

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  • Changing brass neck size up or down by very small amounts.

    Hi guys

    In my previous post I was asking about how to size slightly undersize brass case necks. Just removing the sizing button ought to have worked but didn't. So I found another way of doing it that I've never heard anyone else use, so I thought I'd share it. However it occurs to me that many members that are reloading both common and uncommon calibres might also like to know how to make brass necks slightly bigger or smaller. So here's my experiences:

    The 7x66 SE vom Hofe brass from the lot that I imported is just a little undersize. The neck thickness is 12-13 thou when other 7mm brass is more like 14 -17 thou, (measured on a RCBS Case-master). The RCBS dies for the 7x66SEvH will size 7x64 Brenneke brass, (so I don't think they're at fault here), but they wouldn't work on the thin 7x66SEvH brass. So I measured some sellotape, (what you call "Scotch tape" in the US/Canada and "sticky tape" in Australia). It's 2 thou thick, so I wrapped it around the case neck, trimmed off the excess and raised the case into the FL die. The sticky tape stayed on for the whole procedure for each case. The result was that now the properly sized necks securely grip a 7mm bullet, no trouble at all. It may be a bit slow, but now I can reload my very expensive and very hard to replace 1x fired cases. The tape comes off then, of course.

    To make a case neck bigger, (i.e. the opposite problem), I use 2 thou thick Mylar tape. This isn't sticky and was purchased from Ballistic Products who make lots of great shotgun reloading stuff. It is very strong plastic card. I trim it down, make it into a small funnel and put into the case mouth. It stays in place while the sizing button passes through the neck each way and so makes the case neck 4 thou oversize, (i.e. 2+2 thou each side of the neck). If you've used a Stoney-Point or Hornady Over-All-Length tool, you'll know that you need to use a special factory prepared case with an oversize neck. This allows a bullet to just slip in the neck and so you can determine when it touches the lands. The Mylar trick works on any case, be they exotic ones that you can't buy from Hornady or even just the regular stuff, (e.g. .243, .308 etc.), that comes with their tool, if you forget to keep it separate from your fired cases and accidentally resize it. Without the Mylar, you'll need to buy another new modified case. Your Mylar stretched case, however, will be a custom fit if you neck-size it like this after it was previously fired in you chamber, be that .22 Hornet, 9,3x72R, 8x75RS or whatever!

  • #2
    Clever idea!! I shall have to remember that and thank you!

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    • #3
      Kiwi_Bloke,
      I often advise using normal 8x57 dies w/o expander to load 8x57I or IR. This may not work well, with some dies. It seems your trick would work very well in this case, thanks from me also.
      Mike

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      • #4
        Always something to learn in this game. Thanks for sharing that. Diz

        Comment


        • #5
          Very handy trick!
          www.myersarms.com

          Looking for Mauser tools and catalogs.

          Comment


          • #6
            I should add that, to load .318" 8x57IRmm I just removed the expander ball and chucked it in a hand-drill. Then I spun it against a honing stone until it measured the right dimension. From memory 1 thou under bullet size??? I didn't invent this idea, but I have tried it more than once and it works fine for necking down for undersize bullets. I think the advice that also came with the idea was, "this will also invalidate your die-makers guarantee". So work carefully and maybe wear safety glasses too.

            I'm careful to keep the original-size and undersize expander balls separate. The modified (.318"), 8mm one is in a plastic bag with the diameter on it so it doesn't get mixed up. The 6.5mm one is inside a different brand of FL die. If you have odd metric cases, this is also a good trick for making case trim pilots. Just turn them down until they just slip in the sized neck.

            To neck up, for instance, if I want to create a new shoulder, I have a set of long tapered expanders from CH4D. So to make a parent case like 9,3x57 Swedish Mauser up to 9.5x57 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, (.375"), I'd probably expand it up to .40 calibre and then use the full-length die well backed off to start working the neck down to .375", a 1/4 turn at a time initially until I got the bolt to close with a bit of light resistance. From memory, that was how I sorted out a problem with an 8x56 M.Sch. where the primers would all partly back out on firing. By creating a false shoulder further forward and then fire-forming, I was able to reduce the headspace and no more primer problems.

            The scotch tape / mylar tape options were for just minor changes in neck size up or down.

            For what it is worth, I also use smoke a lot in my reloading. A gunsmith once gave me a clever glass kerosene lamp, that is cut a bit like a diamond so that if it gets knocked over, it just comes to rest on the next flat face of many. I find it invaluable. If you're working a case and smear it with Imperial die wax, then hold it at the tip of the lamp flame, it will blacken the neck and shoulder of the brass. So you can see exactly how far the die has worked the neck and also, if it has set back the shoulder or not. For high pressure rounds, setting it back just a bit is easy to see. I then wipe the smoke and wax off, try it in the chamber and see if the bolt closes with just a bit of resistance. If not, I smoke it again and repeat with the die lowered a bit more. I get a lot of reloads per case this way. No overworked brass.

            Apologies if this is reloading 101 to some of you, but to others it may be new.

            Comment


            • #7
              I should add that, to load .318" 8x57IRmm I just removed the expander ball and chucked it in a hand-drill. Then I spun it against a honing stone until it measured the right dimension. From memory 1 thou under bullet size??? I didn't invent this idea, but I have tried it more than once and it works fine for necking down for undersize bullets. I think the advice that also came with the idea was, "this will also invalidate your die-makers guarantee". So work carefully and maybe wear safety glasses too.

              I'm careful to keep the original-size and undersize expander balls separate. The modified (.318"), 8mm one is in a plastic bag with the diameter on it so it doesn't get mixed up. The 6.5mm one is inside a different brand of FL die. If you have odd metric cases, this is also a good trick for making case trim pilots. Just turn them down until they just slip in the sized neck.

              To neck up, for instance, if I want to create a new shoulder, I have a set of long tapered expanders from CH4D. So to make a parent case like 9,3x57 Swedish Mauser up to 9.5x57 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, (.375"), I'd probably expand it up to .40 calibre and then use the full-length die well backed off to start working the neck down to .375", a 1/4 turn at a time initially until I got the bolt to close with a bit of light resistance. From memory, that was how I sorted out a problem with an 8x56 M.Sch. where the primers would all partly back out on firing. By creating a false shoulder further forward and then fire-forming, I was able to reduce the headspace and no more primer problems.

              The scotch tape / mylar tape options were for just minor changes in neck size up or down.

              For what it is worth, I also use smoke a lot in my reloading. A gunsmith once gave me a clever glass kerosene lamp, that is cut a bit like a diamond so that if it gets knocked over, it just comes to rest on the next flat face of many. I find it invaluable. If you're working a case and smear it with Imperial die wax, then hold it at the tip of the lamp flame, it will blacken the neck and shoulder of the brass. So you can see exactly how far the die has worked the neck and also, if it has set back the shoulder or not. For high pressure rounds, setting it back just a bit is easy to see. I then wipe the smoke and wax off, try it in the chamber and see if the bolt closes with just a bit of resistance. If not, I smoke it again and repeat with the die lowered a bit more. I get a lot of reloads per case this way. No overworked brass.

              Apologies if this is reloading 101 to some of you, but to others it may be new.

              Comment


              • #8
                At first it wouldn't load my post - then it did so twice!!! Must be a bad hair day.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Great post!

                  When my friends wanted to build a 375 based on the 308 case for subsonic loads, I made a tapered expanding mandrel than slowly expands from .300 up to .376 or so. Then neck size and done.

                  Lamp black is a great idea, I had never considered it.

                  I always try to tell people, if information is water, drown me, and I'll die a happy man. I cannot tell you how many things I've learned from people "less experienced" who think they have nothing to teach me, or much more experienced people, such as yourself, covering the basics.

                  One of the reasons I enjoy firearms from the mid 1800's to the mid 1900's is the rapid technological development. Much of that was through sharing ideas and concepts. Admittedly not all were willingly or wantonly shared, none the less shared. Today much of what was hard fought to learn is being lost.

                  Thank you for taking the time to post and share your ideas. I'm a tool maker and machinist and I never once thought of using tape or Mylar for bumping out diameters, and I've built A LOT of die sets punching holes and opening up or closing diameters.
                  www.myersarms.com

                  Looking for Mauser tools and catalogs.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Kiwi_bloke, Nathaniel
                    I too believe in listening to other peoples tricks. I haven't smoked a cigarette in 23 years, but still carry a butane lighter in my pocket, all the time. Smoking case necks is one of the things I use it for ( another is to light the small kerosene lamp I have in the other part of my shop, where I do the little bit of stock work that I can't get out of). I have mentioned many times, the expanders I have made up to fit an "M" die. Also different size "rings" for my "ring dies"( for sizing jacketed bullets). In my opinion, a lathe is a requirement of life ( a mill is a big help).
                    Mike

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