smithpwx

[smithpwx]

Just found and joined the site.Fell in love with German firearms during my 6 years as a soldier in Germany.I now reside in Nevada and for several years now have made it my goal to hunt mule deer ,antelope,and elk with a different german rifle every year.So far I own and hunt with an oberndorf mauser model B(7x57),a sporterized argentine mauser(7.65) 3 swedes all in 6.5x55,and am in the process of building a BRNO VZ in 9.3x 62 with Lothar Walther barrel for this years elk season Looking forward to learning much from all of you Smithpwx

[mike ford]

smithpwx,
Welcome, we are happy to have you with us. Where were you stationed in Germany. Did you hunt there? The 9.3x62 is a great cartridge, I'm hunting with one this year that cobbled together from parts.
Mike

[smithpwx]

Karsruhe/Ettlingen area 1977-1982 frequented the Ettlingen Rod and Gun Club I began the process of obtaining the Jager license but life and an injury which rotated me stateside got in the way One of a very few regrets I have in life. My next aquisition will be a drilling in 16 gauge x 16 gauge x 7x57 I want to hunt chukar while tracking mule deer Good to meet you Mike

[mike ford]

smithpwx,
We were there at the same time. I was there twice, both times in Wuerzburg. The second time (as a DAC)was 76-82. It's too bad you didn't get to hunt, it was great then. I'm learning from new members that it is still possible, but that it changed a lot during the Clinton years. It had already changed a little from my first trip( 71-74), but at least most of the trophy fees were paid by the "fund". Have you already found a drilling, or are you still looking? If you are still looking, my advice is to find one that already has a scope mounted. A drilling may have many different types of problems that are easily repaired, but having a scope mounted(after the fact) is not one of them. Your choice of calibers is great, but don't turn down a great deal because it is another caliber(as long as it is sufficient and available). Let us know how your search works out.
Mike

[smithpwx]

I know the Wurzberg area well.My job(21st support command) took me to Kitzingen several times.I am still looking for a drilling.I agree with you about the scope mounts,My model B has been converted to redfield bases and I really wish it were original.My choice of calibers is pretty firm as i Love a good 16 gauge and normally hunt quail with a 16 gauge lefever side by side.I am also fond of the7x57 and have been reloading it for years so I have alot of built up data and different weight/brand projectiles to experiment with.Im assuming the 7x57R uses similar components,possibly loaded a little lighter because of the type of action. Your thoughts? Can i use the same rcbs dies? I know the shell holder will be different.

[sharps4590]

Welcome smith!! Look forward to reading your posts and experiences. Re the dies for the 7 X 57, they will be the same. Have to agree with your choice in shotgun gauge. Seems the 16 is either a fella's favorite or they have no use for it. I like the 7 X 57R and have a drilling such as you describe and while it has the claw bases the rings are sadly missing.

[mike ford]

smithpwx
My Rod and Gun Club was at Kitzingen and the Facility Engineers were under our office, so I spent a lot of time there myself. While Sharps4590 has already answered, I use normal 7x57 dies to load for my own 7x57R and only vary the shell holder. I found that as long as I used heavier than 160 gr bullets in mine, everything is OK. Lighter bullets hit high and right. While I could adjust the scope, I wanted to keep it so I could also use a Brenneke in the shot barrel. BTY since I was 16, all I hunt with is 16 ga.
Mike

[smithpwx]

good to meet you sharps4590 thanks for the info do you intend to scope your drilling or do you use it with open sights

[smithpwx]

mike ford is your drilling scoped?and if so,what power?I had hoped to use 140gr nosler ballistic tips at 25 to 26 hundred fps.Slightly slower than my mauser.For my drilling fantasy to be useful in Nevada its got to be capable of consistent accuracy at 200 plus yds.I believe 160gr or larger in this caliber would eliminate its ability to shoot "flat" at these ranges Is this feasable or is it in fact a fantasy.Ive never heard anyone discuss this type of rifles usefulness at farther (relatively speaking)ranges.I have a friend with a ruger #1 in 7x57 and it will really reach out there,very strong action though and he loads accordingly.I scan the fine gun sites fairly frequently but have yet to find "the one"so for now im gathering info and planning ahead

[mike ford]

smithpwx,
I'm guessing you are asking about my 7x57R, my drillings are in different calibers. The 7x57R is the lower barrel on a Heym BBF (o/u combination gun). It has a German 4x Nickel scope. The 200yd+ range is within the capability of the 7x57R. At this range, you wouldn't use a Brenneke anyway, so sighting for one wouldn't matter. I normally used the 173 gr H mantel bullet (the partition bullet is essentially a copy), but switched to the 162 gr Torpedo Ideal bullet (TIG), when I hunted Chamois in the Bavarian Alps because it had a flatter trajectory. I wound up making a very short shot and destroyed the shoulder. The range you can shoot depends a lot on how you have the rifle sighted, as well as the bullet and accuracy of the rifle. In deciding on a bullet, check the down range energy, a light bullet may not be the best for you ( 140 gr is more mid weight than light weight). In my part of the world, many people sight their rifle to shoot point of impact at point of aim at the 100 yd range. This is wrong(for a hunting scope), The rifle should be sighted to hit some distance above point of aim, depending on the load, possible range of the shot, and accuracy of the rifle/hunter. Try to pick the distance above point of aim that gives you the longest point blank range, and hold over for at longer distance. Doing this, even the 173gr H mantel would work( this is to illustrate the point, not to recommend a particular bullet.) Drillings are generally very accurate, because soldering the barrels together makes the assembly very stiff. This, however, makes it necessary to use a different "bench procedure" to test it. A barrel lengthens when it heats up. If it is soldered to a cold barrel, the point of impact will move, depending on the temp. of the barrel , which depends on how many times it has been shot. The way to test for accuracy is to always shoot from a cold barrel. Some people even shoot each shot on a different day. People that insist on a 10 round group and not from a cold barrel will be very disappointed, a 5 shot group won't be much better. However if you shoot a 3 round group with each shot from a cold barrel, you get a much better idea of the capability of your drilling. The most important thing is to put the first shot at an animal where it should be, not what size 5 round group it will shoot. Has this been long winded enough?
Mike

[smithpwx]

When I sight in my bolt actions(depending on caliber)I typically sight in 3 inches high at 100 yds.The thought being that from 100 to 400 yds holding on the target with no correction for distance will result in a kill shot.I use 3 shot groups and remove the bolt between shots for air circulation.I keep an IR gun in my range box to make sure the barrel temps are similar'After getting to a happy place on the target I take the rifle home and leave it in an unheated garage overnight.The next day I take 1 shot from the cold gun and if its a kill shot I take it hunting.At deer camp I leave the rifle in my truck not in the cabin or tent too keep it cold.As a result of this practice I understand what you mean about the cold, one at a time sighting in process of a drilling.What you said about the drilling being a "stiff" group of barrels makes absolute sense to me and will be a piece of info I will definitely hold on to.Your comment on the torpedo bullet intrigues if for no other reason than ive never heard of it Ill look it up. Thanks for sharing your experience in these areas

[Diz]

smithpwx,

I don't think RWS is making the TIG bullet any longer and may have replaced it with one they call the "Ideal Classic". I don't have any experience with the new one but if it works like the old bullet it will be fine. They still make the H-mantle bullet in some calibers. If you run across any loaded TIG's in your calibers then I would buy them. They were one of the best out there. The H-mantles are every bit as good as the Nosler or A-frames. All the RWS ammo is generally very accurate as well.

Thanks, Diz

[smithpwx]

Diz looked up the bullet after reading your post it has a resemblance to the sellior and bellot 173 spce not making any comparisons just noting a similarity pwx

[Diz]

pwx, I think S&B loads good ammo but never used it against game. RWS made some very complex bullets with multiple cores and jackets to control expansion and keep them together. It would be hard to compare the two as there are so many other factors to consider. I wish RWS and Norma were easier to get here. Diz

[Axel E]

I don't think RWS is making the TIG bullet any longer and may have replaced it with one they call the "Ideal Classic".

No, they still make the same bullets on the same machines. They just renamed them from "Brenneke TIG and TUG" to "Ideal Classic". The monickers "Brenneke", "TIG" and "TUG" were always owned by the Brenneke company, Langenhagen, http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/ . RUAG, the owner of RWS and Norma, did not want to pay licence fees for using the names to Brenneke any more. So they simply renamed their products and advertized them as "new".