New guy with old drilling in VA

[Outlaw6]

Greetings All! I just joined GGCA after stumbling across and buying a filthy old drilling in a local pawn shop. Thought it would just be a neat wall hanger til I got it home, cleaned all the gunk and varnish off and decoded the proof marks. Turns out it's a hammer drilling with damascus .16 ga barrels, made by L. Dieter Hofbuchsenmacher Munchen (gunmaker to the court of King Ludwig II of Bavaria) in 1881. Has nice engravings of a capercaillie, red deer, pair of roe deer and a fox chasing a pheasant on the receiver and the makers name and bands around the breeches inlaid in silver. The action was still tight, firing pin and hammer springs still had good tension and it turns out that the rifle barrel (originally a 10mm) was sleeved, rechambered and nitro proofed in 1930 to 6.5X52R (.25-35 Win). So I got a couple of boxes of ammo, headed out to the range and it shot a 1" group at 100 yards. Needless to say, the drilling bug has bit me and I'm looking forward to whacking a deer with it this Fall!

[Diz]

Outlaw6, it sounds like a great find. Give us some more details and a few pictures if you can. Are the shotgun bores good? The chambers may be for 2-1/2" shells so I would have them measured. Black powder shells are easy to load and could get you full use of the gun. Best of luck with it. Diz

[mike ford]

Outlaw6,
Like Diz, I think you made a great find. In 1881, the proof law of 1891(effective early 1893)had not been passed, so it wouldn't have been proofed.The 1930 proof would, therefore have likely included the shot barrels. If they are marked with a 16 in a circle,without a 70(unlikely),then it had the standard 65mm(2 1/2-2 9/16")chambers.It would be very interesting, if you could post photos of the drilling, including the marlings.
Mike

[sharps4590]

Great find Outlaw!! I warn you, the slope is slippery.

[Outlaw6]

Well, thanks for the replies! I'll have to get my wife to help me post photos, but for now, here are the markings...I'd appreciate your interpretations. Under the shotgun barrels are: crowned R, S, W and U; Prussian eagle; circled 16 and 16/1. On the shotgun barrel flats are: 16 and circled 16; Prussian eagle; crowned V and U. Under the rifle barrel are: serial # 20167; Prussian eagle; 78/41; crowned R, G, U, and N; KmG/7,5 gr; 6,3r/52; 8.30 with 38 under it. There's a large 81. on the side of the outer chamber area below the extractor slide and above the barrel lumps. On the action flats of the receiver in front of the breech face are crowned U, R, N and a Prussian eagle. It has a Roux underlever action and a pronounced large round extension on the side and lower front of the receiver to accomodate the hinge pin and front barrel hook. Have a good weekend!

[Outlaw6]

Outlaw6, it sounds like a great find. Give us some more details and a few pictures if you can. Are the shotgun bores good? The chambers may be for 2-1/2" shells so I would have them measured. Black powder shells are easy to load and could get you full use of the gun. Best of luck with it. Diz

Although the damascus barrels have a real attractive pattern, they're pitted from breech to muzzle inside and there's a small dent in the right barrel. I think for now, I'll be content hunting deer with the rifle and admire the workmanship on the rest of it. To keep squirrels in the freezer and chase turkeys I use a pre war 2 1/2" .12 ga side by side, engraved with cocking indicators, made by F W Kessler in Suhl and retailed by Miller Val. Greiss Munchen. I guess I like these Munich guns because that was my old stomping grounds during Army service during the Cold War.

[mike ford]

Outlaw6,
As I stated above, the 16s in a circle show the gun has 16ga 65mm chambers. The 16/1 and 16(no circle) shows the dia.of the shotgun barrels ahead of the chamber,expressed in ga.(16.76mm and 16.81mm). The 78/41 is the bore diameter(not groove or bullet dia.), expressed in ga.(9.65mm,or .380")of the rifle barrel before relining.This makes me wonder if the gun was actually built in 1885. This mark would be more common for a gun made between 1893 and 1912(when some changes to markings occured). The "R" is a repair proof, showing some significant work was done, such as relining the rifle barrel(maybe also other unknown work). The "S"s show the barrels were proofed to use shot. The "W"s show the barrels were choked(degree not shown). The "U"s mean the gun underwent a "View" proof, which was a detailed inspection. The "G" means the barrel it appears on was proofed to use a solid projectile(bullet). The N is for Nitro. The 6.3 is the bore diameter(not groove or bullet) in mm. The 52 is the case length in mm(ie 6.5x52R). The 8.30( Aug 1930) is the reproof date. The 38 is a ledger number,and indicates it was proofed in Zella-Mehlis. The KmG 7,5gr, means the new barrel was proofed for a 7.5 gram(115.7grain)copper jacketed bullet.Recheck the V you reported, I believe it is a poorly marked or worn W. There was a marking with a V, but it wouldn't be appropriate for either an 1885 or 1893-1912 manufacture date. Are we confused yet?