Stiegele schuetzen

[MIKEMP5]

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[mike ford]

MikeMP5,
Your rifle is a Martini type schuetzen. The 172/28 is the bore(not groove or bullet)diameter, expressed in "gauge", which is about 30 caliber.This type marking means it was made before 1912, but after early 1893. While it is possible to be another caliber, a schuetzen rifle with this mark is more than likely chambered for 8.15x46R. The crown B means it was proofed to fire a single projectile.The crown U, means it underwent a "view"proof, which is really a detailed inspection. The term Kruppscherstahl means the barrel was made from Krupp steel. I am informed that the S showes the barrel was made by the Schilling forge. If this is incorrect, I'm sure someone will correct it.
Mike

[Nathaniel Myers]

Wow! Beautiful piece!

I won't correct mike because he knows a great deal more than me. I do agree however, with everything he stated.

[MIKEMP5]

Thank for the information, the family is concerning selling the rifle and would like to get a value for it any ideas on that?

[Nathaniel Myers]

My best recommendation would be to examine the many gun auction and sales web sites for comparable pieces. Look at sold vs asking prices and come up with something appropriate. Many on this board are hesitant to give pricing for many reasons. With our physical inspection it is hard to determine quality, condition, and attributes of the gun. Additionally, that gun would sell for little where I live, none would be interested in it due to the odd caliber and it isn't a "huntin gun".

[Peter K]

Mike, I have been playing with the 172/28 bore diameter which is expressed as a gauge. I have tried to convert it to the diameter of a lead ball expressed in millimeters. Which is the gauge number, the 172 or the 28, or should I read it as 172.28? I'm assuming, that gauge is the number of lead balls of a certain size that make up 1 lb of lead.
The formula is as follows where d(mm) is the diameter of the lead ball and n is the gauge: d = 42.416mm/ ∛n. For 28 gauge I get 13.65 mm and for 30 gauge I get 14.0 mm. For 172.28 gauge the diameter is 7.62 mm while 8.15 mm diameter is 141 gauge. So I make 7.62 mm out to be .30 caliber bore diameter as you stated above.

I had to do this calculation myself to understand it.

Peter

[mike ford]

Peter,
It is read 172.28 under our system of numbers.Germans, at that time, used a , or / instead of a .(period). Your calculations appear to be correct. I never go to the trouble of calculating the value, I just look at the table. The one I use is found in an article about the German Proof Law,found in the 1975 edition of GUN DIGEST, plus a supplement ,provided by Axel,containing the values for the smaller calibers. BTW, 8.15mm is not an actual measurement, rather it is a nominal designation for the cartridge. There is such variation in barrel diameters that some might actually be 8.15mm(groove dia), but thay are all called 8.15 whether they are or not.Also, some of the cases might even actually be 46mm long. The only part of the cartridge designation that doesn't vary is the "R", they are all rimmed (although rim dia. and thickness may vary). Are we having fun yet?
Mike

[Axel E]

Peter, I too wondered for some time about the queer gauge numbers and their equally queer millimeter equivalents in the German 1892 proof tables. Then I converted some of the millimeter numbers to inches for American members, and a pattern appeared. Those gauge numbers were apparently copied from a British table converted to mm. Some of the numbers:
172.28 = 7.62 mm = .30"
156.14 = 7.87 mm = .31"
141.95 = 8.13 mm = .32"
129.43 = 8.38 mm = .33"
118.35 = 8.64 mm = .34" and so on.
The queer gauge numbers are neatly arranged in .01" steps!
These gauge numbers were determined at the proof house by using cylindrical plugs. The number of the largest plug that passed the barrel between the lands was then stamped. So a barrel marked 172.28 may indeed have a diameter between the lands as large as .309". To the land diameter you have to add two times the groove depth to arrive at the groove and bullet diameter of that barrel.