Need info and help with identifying a jg anschutz 410/22 side by side

[redbeulah]

IMG_4883.jpgIMG_4892.jpgIMG_4893.jpgIMG_4907.jpgIMG_4880.jpg Any and all information would be helpful....I have not been able to find anything on the internet and everyone that sees it states they have never seen one. One the side there is the number 172..? maybe the model number?...thanks

[mike ford]

redbeulah,
Your gun was proofed November 1928 in Zella Mehlis, with ledger number 69. The shot barrel has a bore diameter of 10.1 mm , which is the approximate bore dia. of the .410". It would not be chambered for the modern 3" shells, it would be either 2" or 2 1/2".The rifle has a bore(not groove or bullet) diameter of about 5.3mm, which would be one of the 22 rimfires,likely 22 long(maybe LR). You didn't say whether you have shot it or not. If a 22 LR won't chamber, try 22long. I recommend you make a chamber cast of the shot chamber, or measure the chamber some other way. I hope this helps.
Mike

[redbeulah]

thanks mike, I have not shot the gun but a 22 mag fits, the man that sold it to me said he had shot the 22 mags, again thanks for all the info

[Axel E]

but a 22 mag fits, the man that sold it to me said he had shot the 22 mags,

If a.22 mag fits, the gun was certainly rechambered post-WW2, most likely in the USA. Check the shot barrel too, it may have been rechambered also. The sights are certainly later add-ons, taken from a small-bore bolt action. I have never seen such sights on a pre-war German small bore combination gun.

[mike ford]

redbeulah,
The date your gun was proofed was considerably before the 22mag was introduced, therefore it couldnot have been originally chambered for it. The timing would be possible,however, for the 22WRF. This cartridge, like the 22Mag, is larger in diameter than 22 S/L/LR cartridges(due to inside lubricated bullet, rather than heeled outside lubricated bullet).It is possible that a 22WRF chamber with a long enough lede could accept a 22mag cartridge; or it is possible that the chamber has been lengthened, due to the 22WRF being hard to find. The gun was not intended for the higher pressures of 22mag, and a steady diet of this cartridge could be harmful to the gun.If the shotshell chamber has been lengthened to 3", it should still just be used with 2 1/2" shells, which are avaliable for skeet shooting.22WRF cartridges are not very common, but can be found, and should be used instead of 22mag.
Mike

[redbeulah]

Thank you guys for all the info, I was thinking that it was the 22wrf instead of the mag. I would like to add a few more pic of the whole gun but I don't know how right now, thanks again

[Axel E]

Such cheap, boxlock hammer garden guns, single barrel, side by side and even over-under combination guns were a staple of the Zella-Mehlis guntrade for many years, from about 1900 to WW2. They are featured in any mail order or wholesale catalog of that period. Here is another such gun with a Jones-type action and a page from the 1910 ALFA export catalog, but you may look them up also in the 1909 AKAH or the Burgsmueller catalogs, reprints availble fom the GGCA bookstore. I.G.Anschuetz was just one of the many cheapo Z-M gunmakers in 1928, they became known as precision rifle makers only after WW2. Most of these guns are seen chambered for the 6mm Flobert rimfire = .22BB and 9mm Flobert rimfire, for legal reasons, as you did not need a licence to buy, carry or use these "non-firearms". But most of these nominally "6mm Flobert" chambers are quite generous, they even accept .22 lr and .22 extra long cartridges.




Because of the 1928 proof date and the then economical situation in Germany I rule out the .22 wrf as the original chambering too. The cartridge was unknown and unavailble in Germany then. Such German combinations were rather chambered for the 5.6x35R Vierling aka .22 WCF, but this would not allow use of the .22 mag rimfire, of course. I suspect a rechambering from .22lr or even 6mm Flobert to .22 mag.

[redbeulah]

thanks Axel, is that your gun in the picture, my gun has the numbrt 172 no the side, do you think that is a model or serial number, thanks

[Axel E]

No, that gun is not mine. It was found in an attic in a village nearby. I saved it from being scrapped, cleaned and slightly refinished it and gave it away. It is now in the vast collection of our friend Flintenkalle. It's a noname Z-M product in .22 and 9mm rf, likely earlier than your gun. For legal purposes only I would read "172" as a serial number, but most likely it is only an assembly number to keep the parts sorted when a batch of like guns were blued, stocked and finished. Real serial numbers were rarely used on such cheap, simple guns at the times they were made.