Frankurt a/Main 16gx7x57 over under

[Meinherr]

Their is a marking on the barrel MAS .It is an under lever heavily engraved gun made in the 1920s or earlier .Any ideal who the maker is bythe style?

[Meinherr]

The barrel is marked STM G 12g 1912 7.6X57 Does this make it an 8X57? thanks
Doug

[mike ford]

Doug,
The 7.6x57 would indicate chambering for 8x57IR or 8x57R/360, albeit with a pretty tight barrel. More often the barrel would be marked 7,8 or 7,7 for the bore (not groove or bullet) diameter. Every once in a while, we see 8mm barrels with a 7.6 bore marking, the ones I have seen have 8.15x46R chambers, but the chamber in this one is clearly 57mm. The STM G 12g, means it was proofed for a 12-gram Steel Jacketed bullet. It is tempting to say the 1912 is the date of the rifle, but it isn't in the normal location or in the normal form. I suspect it represents a powder type, are you sure it is not T 1910? It would be helpful to have clear photos of all markings, including of the proof marks on the bottom of the barrel. It is possible to determine whether it is chambered for 8x57IR or 8x57R/360 without making a chamber cast. If a 30-06 size case rim will just enter the chamber it is 8x57IR or if a 30-30 rim will almost fit the rim recess, it is 8x57R/360. If it is 8x57R/360, it is very important not to yield to the temptation of re- chambering it, even if someone recommends it.
Mike

[Meinherr]

Mike: The 1912 is not the normal set up like 11/12 etc. I will try to get better pictures as the gun is in an auction
thanks
Doug

[Meinherr]

Mike: The 30-06 will enter the chamber but is too long and the 30-30 is too loose. Looks like a 8X57R ?

[mike ford]

Doug,
You may still be correct, but I think you misunderstood the test. The test in both cases is to present the cartridge cases to the chamber rim first. This is only a quick test that doesn't require calipers or a micrometer, nor a chamber cast. A 30-06 case head size is the same (within manufacturing tolerances) as an 8x57IR (in front of the rim). Therefore a 30-06 case, upside down, should just fit into an 8x57IR chamber, but will not fit into an 8x57R/360 chamber (past the rim recess). By the same token, a 30-30 rim is about .500" in diameter and an 8x57R/360 rim is about .485" in diameter and a 30-30 rim should not fit into the 8x57R rim recess, except such recesses must be larger than the rim and some may be large enough to barely fit a 30-30 rim. On the other hand an 8x57IR rim recess is considerably larger than a 30-30 rim. If a recheck still shows it is 8x57IR, then that is the chambering. The confusion is because the proof marks, alone, could fit either cartridge.
Mike

[algmule]

Hello

Their is a marking on the barrel MAS .Any ideal who the maker is bythe style?

I know nothing about a marking MAS but my guess would be that the thing was peddled by the establishment M. A. Saam, Waffen und Jagdrequisiten, Alte Rothof-Strasse 3, Frankfurt am Main. That business is the only one I have in my library that fits the initial MAS, if indeed they are initials. I believe the M. A. Saam establishment, if I am guessing correctly, only peddled the gun. Who the "real" maker was may be revealed if there are further markings somewhere on the thing. Post the Nitro-marking introduction around 1911-13 the M. A. Saam establishment was owned by a Heinrich Friedrich Saam, Frankfurt am Main.

Also: I may very well be incorrect in my guessing as to whom peddled the gun. I am just trying to be helpful.

EDIT: Heinrich Friedrich Saam was a Kaufmann.

Peter

[mike ford]

Peter,
Thanks for trying to help. Lacking clear photos, we can't tell if scope mount bases obliterate part of the MAS marking.
Mike