Vierling scope mount help

[ccole23]

Hello I am excited to have found this site and group as i have had a very difficult time finding much information locally. I have been collecting drillings and vierlings for many years and am in need of some help identifying some of my collection. In particular I have a vierling I want to mount a scope on but have never seen this style of base metal. Any help would be much appreciated.

[mike ford]

ccole23,
Welcome.
You are lucky to have a vierling, and you are lucky that it has the type of scope bases it has, already mounted. I believe others have been able to modify CZ/Brno bases (I think 16mm dovetail) to work. There is a lot of glare on the photo, making it difficult to see clearly. You didn't ID the maker, which may help. When you say "base metal", am I correct in believing you are refering to the scope mount bases, and not the metal the reciever is made from?
Mike

[ccole23]

Hi mike
Thank you for responding it is a w. eblen Stuttgart
Any more info would be great. It is a 16x16 x 22 hornet x 8x57jr

[ccole23]

Also the reciever is some sort of alloy I am not sure what it is as all my other drillings have steel receivers

[mike ford]

ccole23,
More than likely,it is an aluminum alloy marketed as Dural. Dural has been used since the 1930s. Meffert was one of the first to use it, but over the years, others have also used it. FW Heym used Dural in one of their Mod 33 Drillings and Mod 22S O/U combination gun. I believe Krieghof also did, as did some others. It was used by some for Vierlings to save weight. Some makers would not use it, claiming they could make their alloy steel actions as light as if made from Dural.I don't think Eblen was the actual maker, but rather marketed it.The form of the reciever reminds me very much of the Heym Mod 33.
Mike

[ccole23]

Is there any more info I can give you to know the maker and year built? Is dural a good product

[mike ford]

ccole23,
Yes, it would be very helpful, actually essential, to post clear photos of all the markings, especially the proof marks. Dural is an acceptable material, steel inserts are usually used to reinforce certain areas, especially firing pin bushings. We may not be able to determine the maker, for sure. If you find the word "Hubertus" anywhere on the gun, it was likely made by Meffert.
Mike

[ccole23]

Here are some more pics I am hopeful the marks will help you to identify the maker and year etc again thank you for your helpimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

[Axel E]

Sorry, but in your photos an essential information, the proof date, is out of facus and illegible. Under the rifle barrel in front of the lumps there are some sets of numbers: 7.8mm for the bore diameter, 57 for the case length and then ?xx8?. This is the month number and the last 2 digits of the year, 1928 or more likely 1938. The Wilhelm Robert Eblen shop was founded in nearby Bad Cannstadt in 1895. By 1919 it was in Stuttgart, Lange Strasse 14 and existed until at least 1967. In the 1930s to 40 they often cooperated with the able Suhl gunmaker Edgar Strempel, Stadelstr.16. Strempel was one of the early specialists, besides Collath and Meffert, who offered exta-light guns with light alloy frames, so I suspect he made your Vierling.

[ccole23]

Thank you so much for that information. Does anyone know or have any photos of what a set of original scope rings would have been. I'm guessing its a dovetail mount with a quick release lever of some sort that would have cammed over into the groves to lock in place?

[ccole23]

Here are better pictures of the under barrel to help identify

[Axel E]

Thge Vierling was proofed 338, March 1938. It was at least in the white stage then, so "made 1938" is the correct answer. All other I can see is the "L" mark of Louis Kelber, Truebenbachstr.1, Suhl, a well known barrelmaker.

[ccole23]

Is there any part I could take a picture of that would positively identify the maker?

[mike ford]

ccole23,
I will defer to Axel, with regard to ID of the maker. With regard to scope mounts, check a previous thread, entitled "what is this mount called"by kcordell, posted 04-22-2013. This thread can be found under General Discussion and will include links to other helpfull information. When you do mount a scope, you may be dissatisfied with the regulation of the point of impact with the small caliber barrel. It is unlikely that anything is wrong with the gun. If this occurs, the likely cause will be the difference in velocity between 1938 German and current American 22 Hornet loads. When you mount the scope, you should sight it in with whatever large caliber ammo you intend to use(I couldn't see if the "duty bullet"was marked or not).Then, if it doesn't shoot to a useable point of impact with commercial ammo, the answer will be found through handloading to a velocity that prints acceptably.You IDed the small caliber as 22 Hornet, and in 1938, this is probable.If the gun won't close on a 22 Hornet cartridge, it could be chambered for 5.6x35R Vierling(22 WCF).If this is the case, please don't force the gun closed.The 22 Hornet is known as 5.6x36R in it's Metric designation, but the main difference between the two is rim thickness rather than case length( also pressure, of course).If it happens to be the older cartridge, handloading is still the answer. Cases can be bought or made from Hornet brass and the loads should be to 5.6x35R velocity, not Hornet. Attention must also be paid to the barrels groove diameter.If it is not the currently standard .224", both .223" and .222" jacketed bullets are avaliable. I think you will have a lot of fun with this gun.
Mike

[ccole23]

Thank you Mike I very much appreciate your time and help

Chet