Need help identifying L. Dieter rifle

[RAMMER8227]

I need help identifying a rifle and the value
The “serial” # I found is 19011
And engraved on the top of the barrel is “ L. Dieter hofbuchesenmacher In munchen”
https://imgur.com/gallery/8nc6SCj

[mike ford]

Rammer8227,
Your rifle was likely made by someone in Suhl or Zella-Mehlis and marketed by L. Dieter, or possibly both finished and marketed by him. There are no proof marks under the barrels, therefore it was made before early 1893, when the Proof law of 1891 came into effect. You didn't say what calibers it is chambered for, so I'm guessing you have not IDed them. The shot barrel should be easy enough for you to check. It will most likely be 16 ga., but could be 12 or 20. If you check a 16 ga. shell and it fits, then you have it. If it is too small, the chamber is likely 12 ga., if too large, then it is likely 20 ga. There are other possibilities, but they are pretty rare. In any case, modern ammunition will be for chambers longer than in your gun. The old standard chamber length was 65mm, whereas the modern standard is 70mm( 2 1/2" vs 2 3/4"). Also it has a Damascus barrel which was intended for blackpowder rather than modern smokeless powder. The nominal caliber of the rifle barrel is more difficult to ID. It will be necessary for you to make or have someone else make a chamber cast and "slug" the barrel. Even then it may be difficult to precisely ID it. The good news is, useable ammo can usually be prepared, even if the original name of the cartridge is unknown. As far as the value is concerned, I don't usually estimate the value of someone else's gun that I don't have" in hand". All I can say is I have a couple very similar guns and to the best of my memory, I paid $4-600 for them. I hope you find this helpful.
Mike

[algmule]

Hello

1853.JPG

EDIT: the snippet above with the year 1853 must include the time Franz Dischler was running his shop and before Dieter took over the Dischler business.

Also: the address is not the correct one for early on as it was Karlsplatz 11 then 13 and finally 14 before Herzog Wilhelmstraße. First mentioning of a Dieter at Herzog Wilhelmstraße that I have is 1899-1900. A "Dieter, Cresz. Hofbüchsenmach.-We Herzog Wilhelmst. 111". Why the 1 in "lower case" I don't know. In 1909-10 the business was still at Karlsplatz 14. In 1919-20 the address is given as Herzog Wilhelmstrae 110. Franz Dieter was however at Herzog Wilhelmstraße as early as 1900-01.

Kind regards
Peter

[RAMMER8227]

Thank you both for the replies and info. It is much appreciated. I’ve taken it to different appraisers over the years and haven’t had much luck.