New Member says "Hi"

[RobCush]

Hi There.
I'm Rob. Will try and keep this a brief insight.
Father was in the British army and I was born in Germany. We moved back to the UK mid 70's. He was an avid shooter and when he left the army became a firearms dealer and collector. Back in the mid 80's he was gifted a Sauer & Sohn drilling from his friend in Germany. Side by side 16 with 8x57 under. I shot it a few times and remember he reloaded his own ammo.
Move on a number of years.... Last year he lost his battle with prostate cancer and I wanted to continue his legacy of shooting so decided to take ownership of 3 out of over 200 items ranging from black powder to nitro etc.
I'm sure you guys understand the collection he had. I chose 10/22 ruger( Took my 2 young boy shooting with him with this so hold it as a link to him). Browning under over( engraving i liked on this). German drilling side by side 8x57 under. Had these items sent to a LFD here in Ireland and took only a couple of pictures when they arrived as had to wait for licence( drilling showed as 16bore, 8x57 on his licence)
After over a month after his passing we held the funeral and his old friends from as far as Jamaica and the middle east came to show their respects. And of course his friend from Germany drives over! We have a chat and i show him the pictures of what i am now the owner of, only to be told that is not what he gifted my father. Ahh, awkward.
Just got my license for the drilling here in Ireland after nearly 4 months and going by my fathers firearms license in the uk i applied for a 16bore 8x57 combination. Turns out when i collected it, that it is 16 bore 7.8x57. Oh poo my license is not valid for what i now have applied for so have to amend it. Here in Ireland reloading is not allowed and now i have to try and source rounds. I was over visiting my mother at Christmas and took two old 8x57 casings back with me. Out of the 2 the 8x57 jrs fitted the best on the ejector but obvious did not fit the barrel.

Now the main question. Does any member know where i can purchase rounds for this drilling? I have a shop here in Ireland that will get an import license for me so anywhere in the world will do as i would like to use it. The local gun shop has no joy in locating rounds for me from their suppliers and one local gun shop asked me "Why you get such an odd gun".
So here i am leaving my faith in such a community.

Thank you for reading and I look forward to your assistance.
Regards
Rob.
P.S. I can upload pictures if required.

[Diz]

Rob, welcome to the forum. your best bet is to post clear pictures of all the marking on your drilling especially those under the barrels. There are experts here that can give you the answer to most all of your questions. On the 7.8x57, I believe you will find that it is actually an 8x57 and that the 7.8 number is the bore diameter. Exactly which bore I will leave to those more expert than I. Best of luck with your new drilling. Diz

[RobCush]

Hi Diz. Thank you. I will try and upload pictures tomorrow

[mike ford]

Rob,
I don't know how understanding the Irish authorities are ( it pains me to say that, given my Irish blood), but they have made a mistake. As Diz said, the nominal caliber of your drilling is actually 8x57 R ( likely IR aka JR, or IRS aka JRS). The 7.8 is simply the bore ( not groove or bullet) diameter as measured by the proof house. The 57 is simply the length of the cartridge case and says nothing about the shape of the case( necked, straight, rimmed, rimless, etc). The bore diameter was measured by the use of plug(or pin) gauges in 0.1mm steps, so 7.8 is between 7.79 and 7.89mm. The bullet diameter is between .318"( IR) and .323"( IRS). If you have a case fired in the gun and not resized, if it will easily accept a .323" bullet, you can fire 8x57 IRS ammo. If it will not easily accept a .323" bullet, you must use 8x57 IR ammo. BTW IR means "Infantry Rimmed" and IRS means "Infantry Rimmed Spitzer". The afore mentioned bullet test is more important that the actual groove diameter, because if the bullet is not released due to being jammed into the chamber, that is what drives the pressure up instead of a little larger bullet. If you can find a source of 8x57IR ammo, you can use it without worry. I hope I haven't confused matters too much. I would like to see photos of the gun, and if you send clear photos of all markings ( also proof marks under the barrels), we will likely be able to provide additional information about it.
Mike

[RobCush]

Please find attached pictures of the drilling as promised. I hope these are what people require and if not please let me know and i will take what is needed. The two pictures where the case is inserted is as far as it will go into the barrel and i used a die to check its gauge and it is 8mm at the neck. This is what is causing me concern as to what rounds i would need to purchase.
Thanks in advance
Rob

[RobCush]

only alows 5 pictures to be uploaded in 1 go

[mike ford]

Bob,
I can't read all the markings, but will try anyway, The gun was proofed as an 8x57IR using a 15 gram steel jacketed bullet( you can use other bullets). It was proofed at the Suhl Proof House in either 1928 or 38( I can't read the complete date- it is below the 57 and the number before the year is the month). The 16 in a circle means it has the standard(for the time) 16 ga chamber, which was 65mm ( 2 1/2-2 9/16"). The 16, not enclosed in a circle is the bore diameter, ahead of the chamber. In this case 16 is about 16.81mm ( 16/1 would be 16.99 mm). The crown S means those barrels were proofed for shot. Where there is a crown W, that barrel is choked (amount of constriction not given). The crown U means it went through a view proof, after a definitive proof firing, View proof amounts to a detailed inspection including verification of dimensions. The crown G means that barrel was proofed to fire a single projectile( bullet). I think the GECO on the partially shown underlug is the "House Mark" for Gustav Genschau(sp?), which only marketed the drilling made for them by someone in Suhl. I didn't see any Sauer markings, so your dad's friend might have been correct that this was not the one he was given. Since you tried a cartridge case that was fired in an unknown rifle, it is not unusual that it didn't chamber. An unfired case might chamber. In your situation I advise you to make a concerted effort to find 8x57IR ammo, maybe Sellier& Bellot. Since you are not allowed to hand load, I can't give you the advice, I would otherwise give.
Mike

[RobCush]

Mike.
Thank you so much for all that information. I will email *Sellier& Bellot in the morning about 8x57IR rounds and let you know the outcome.
Rob

[RobCush]

Quick question. Would the 8 x 57 irs/jrs round not be the one required as the js does not fit onto ejector.

[mike ford]

Bob,
The one you are looking for is 8x57IR (sometimes written as JR, because the old German "I" looked similar to "J"). I believe your confusion may come from you having fired 8x57IRS cases "on hand", likely fired in a different gun. As discussed above, you should use 8x57IR, because you lack the resources to test if 8x57 IRS is useable. Neither the "I" or "IS" version are useable, due to being rimless. I would be much more able to help you if I could handle the gun myself with the examples of ammo and bullets I have on hand. The 8x57IR ammo is more difficult to find than 8x57IRS but you should make every effort to find it.
Mike

[sharps4590]

S&B does make 8 X 57JRS ammo. A local shop accidently ordered some because they were on a clearance price and Dave told me he didn't look close enough. Consequently I've been buying up his stock as he lowers the price, just in case I might someday own an 8 X 57JRS. I also use them to make 9 X 57R. Seems to be good brass so I assume the loaded ammo is equally good.

[Axel E]

Sellier & Bellot offers 8x57 IR, .318" bullet, ammunition too, at least in Europe. See https://www.sellier-bellot.cz/en/pro...ion/list/1537/ This is most likely correct for your pre-WW2 Drilling.

[RobCush]

Well I have had 2 road trips to locate the required rounds. Just back after trying 8x57js and no good as rimless and wont sit in the extractor. he can't place the next order wont be till September. So my search continues.

[mike ford]

Rob,
Don't give up, you will eventually find what you need.
Mike

[RobCush]

Update. Have located 200 rounds of 8x57jr. Now have to wait for import license. Will keep you updated..