Small Bore Cape Gun

[Dutch]

Hello – New member here. I have been through the site and have enjoyed it very much. Lots of very nice guns. I have a couple of German military arms through which I gained appreciation for their design and craftsmanship. Thanks for the opportunity to share and I look forward to getting better educated on German sporting arms.

I have a nice little combination gun that was advertised as 9mm shot and .22LR. I have now learned that the smoothbore barrel is not 9mm but rather is marked as a .32 caliber as noted by Jon after my inquiry through the website. I got the gun apart with some tips from Jon and have now made my first chamber cast. The measurements I show are a best, first effort. The gun has 23 5/8” barrels & an OAL of 39”. The front site is marked “Marble” and “Sheard” with dual sights on the rear. The rifle side has set trigger.

I am hoping to shoot this gun and the rifle side chambers .22 shorts fine and LR with a little effort. I am thinking I might stick with some light CB rounds just to be safe. Any advice on that is appreciated. I have tried to research shotshells that might be right for this gun with no success. Since it was advertised as 9mm, I bought some Floberts thinking I had a readily available supply of ammo. No luck with those as they are far too small.

The markings on the side of the barrels appear to be as follows:
Shot barrel
1st line 0,5grl l.G.P.m/71.
2nd line 6grBl

Rifle barrel
1st line (0.2 ??)grNGP.m/71
2nd line 1,8grFl

Crown B and U proof marks appear on the right side of the receiver in the banner within the engraved scene. No makers marks on the receiver as far as I can tell.

I have attached some photos and look forward to any input. Thank you.

[mike ford]

Dutch,
Your gun was proofed in May of 1911 in the proof house at Zella-Mehlis, and both barrels were proofed to fire a single projectile ( bullet)( both have the crownG proof and neither has crown S). I concur with your idea of using CBs. CCI makes a CB loaded in long cases that may chamber well, since they wouldn't have the LR bullet to interfere. I have a doctors appointment tomorrow, but will see what I can find out about the larger cartridge when I return. Is the cartridge center fire, or rim fire ?

Mike

[Dutch]

Hi Mike. Thanks much. The bullet through a smoothbore is definitely perplexing to me as a novice. Looks rimmed from my uneducated position with a diameter of roughly 12.8mm. Love to learn more about the proof house so any leads about that would be great! Is this a blackpowder only prospect?

[Axel E]

Your combination is a rather upgrade Gartenbüchsflintchen = small garden combination gun. Such guns, likely by the same Zella – Mehlis maker, were offered by the 1911 Stukenbrok mail order catalog:

Your gun matches the description of Stukenbrok's order number 7562
The calibers reflect a quirk in the former German gun laws: Rifled non-repeaters in 6mmFlobert (nominally) and smooth bores up to 9mm bore diameter were not regarded as "Fireams", but as toys. Such guns could be bought and used by anyone, even childs. The "6mm Flobert" rifle barrels were usually chambered quite generously. So most of them will take even .22 lr loads. Your barrel was proofed for the then .22 short BP load. This barrel is likely chambered for the .22 long, predecessor of the lr with a shorter bullet. Iwould not hesitate to use modern .22 lr cartridges in such a solid gun.
Most smoothbore barrels on such guns were in 9 mm Flobert rimfire, but there were exceptions.
Many users wanted a reloadable cartridge, that is, a centerfire. A popular solution then was the 9.1x40R brass case, loaded with .5 g = 8 gr black powder, a wad and 1.8 g = 28 gr Bl = lead shot. But as such smooth bores would take the rifle load, 16 gr bp and a 115 gr lead Geschoss = bullet too, the smoothbores were proofed for this heavier rifle load and marked with a G = Geschoss. Your chamber is obviously too long for a 40 mm brass case, but then longer cases up to 52 mm were available on order, but not in loaded form. If you are lucky, you may perhaps use .38-55 brass with reduced rims in your chamber, loaded with black powder and shot.
Such guns were used for shooting small pests like mice, rats, sparrows around house or farm. The Marble, Sheard sights are obviously postwar American replacements. The long chamber may be an American alteration too. The bore Dimension of your chamber cast, 8.6 mm = .3385" is larger than the diameter indicated by the gauge number 141.95 = up to .330", but is correct for a 9.1x40R smoothbore without the deep bp rifling.

[mike ford]

Dutch,
Since Axel has basically answered your questions, I will defer to his answer. When I asked if it is rimfire or centerfire, I was asking if the firing pin hits the rim( rimfire) or the center of the case( centerfire) to ignite the primer. Axel's answer refers to this difference as well. If it is rimfire you must use the rimfire ammo, which cannot be easily reloaded. If it is centerfire, you can easily reload ammo for it, once you have cases. Axel's suggestion of using 38-55 Ballard/Winchester cases should work. The rim diameter may have to be reduced by a couple thousandths of an inch, which can be done with a file by turning the case in a drill press, if a lathe is not available. The rim thickness may need thinning as well. This can be done the same way and use large pistol primers, which are not as thick as rifle primers. The original 38-55 case length was 2.125-2.130", but modern cases are the same as 30-30 ( 2.040"). This shouldn't make much difference. You could also use 30-30, 32 Win. Special, or 32-40 cases the same way plus "fire forming". 375 Winchester cases could also be used and although a little smaller diameter and length, shouldn't require reducing rim diameter.
Mike

[Dutch]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate your knowledge and time. The smoothbore barrel looks to be centerfire from the position of the pin. I actually wanted to shoot a light shot load anyway but the possibility of maybe shooting a round ball is interesting.

You guys are great. I really appreciate your knowledge. The smoothbore barrel looks to be centerfire from the position of the pin. I actually wanted to shoot a light shot load anyway but the possibility of shooting a round ball is interesting.

I have never done any reloading so I expect that will likely need to change. I am doing some reading on the basics but would like much to be pointed toward any source that might help further with this project. For instance, what particular die set would be appropriate or how might that be determined? Should the case neck extend into the beginning of the barrel (having a shoulder) or should it be shorten into a straight wall shell just short of the forcing cone?
I have even thought about a chamber adapter for use with the available Floberts. Between those options and even a rechambering for a more common cartridge, what do you advise in terms of viability and respecting the gun? I want to be sure I don’t do something I’ll regret.

[sharps4590]

I would not re-chamber anything. Alter the ammo, not the firearm. It's possible a chamber adapter could be made without a lot of expense and that's a lot better than altering the firearm. You don't want the case entering the forcing cone, as you call it, or the barrel. The case mouth has to expand enough to release the bullet.

There is two reloading books/manuals I always recommend. First is always the Lyamn book, now in its 50th edition I believe. There is tons of info in it before a fella gets to the data. The second is "The ABC's of Reloading". 95% of your questions will be answered in one of those two books. After them it sort of depends on your interests as to what manuals you acquire. Any by the powder or bullet makers will be good.

[mike ford]

Dutch,
I make "shot" shells for shooting carpenter bees with a 410 pistol( I have appropriate "papers"), and the procedure is very much like you will likely use. I use worn out polishing media for "shot"( some friends use grits or Cream of wheat). For larger pests, you can also use fine lead shot, like #9 or 10. I use 444 Marlin cases, so when I infrequently have to size the cases I use 444 dies. In your case I think 38-55 dies will work(if you can find a 3 die set, so much the better). If not, then 357 Winchester dies should. Once you have cases prepared, your loads will be comparatively low enough pressure ( in rifle strength cases) that you should be able to load useable ammo by hand with essentially no tools other than sizing, if cases get too tight, and some way to make wads and a dowel to seat them with. I used to use "water glass" to seal the cartridges with but found carpenters glue( Titebond) to be perfectly useable and much more available. De-priming is by hand with a homemade punch and priming can be done by any of the normal ways or even by tapping the cases over the primer resting on a hard surface with a dowel( or rod) and hammer( carefully). There are others here, such as sharps 4590, that may offer different experiences and methods, from which you can choose those that fit your needs best. You should be able to use experience gained from loading shot, to also load round ball bullets . Any of us will be happy to help any way we can.
Mike

[Dutch]

I will heed all of your excellent advise. I am now fully on board the position that alterations are "verboten" (one of my few German words). Its amazing how much you all have shared and now knowing the origins of the gun and some reloading tips I feel much more confident. I am going to track down the resources and items mentioned and start getting familiar with them. I now doubt will have some more questions so its great to be a member of this association. Thanks!

[sharps4590]

Thank you sir and best of luck to ye!! As Mike said, any of us will be happy to help any way we can. That is a REALLY COOL ol' firearm and I admit to a little envy. They are so much fun to work up brass and loads for and put to their intended use...and I consider killing wasps an intended use!! I've done that with my Schuetzen rifle. Kinda heavy to be packin' around the deck or patio on a hot day but it's extremely effective!

[Diz]

Dutch,

Welcome to the forum and it is a very nice little gun and should be an interesting project getting it to shoot. You did a good job with the chamber cast and Mike was on target with recommending 38-55 cartridge brass as a starting point. I measured some new 38-55 and it should be a drop in fit to your chamber, You shouldn't even need to trim at all. As to loading information the books Sharps recommends are excellent however the trick is that 38-55 data will be useless for loading shot in a brass case. However, it is not that difficult but it can be a bit tricky and complicated. I would rather not jam up the forum with a lot of reloading instructions so I'll PM you and we can discuss it off-line if you want.

Thanks, Diz