new guy whit an old JP Sauer and Sohn suhl

[fedearg]

Hello and thank you forn leting me join the forum.
I'm from Aregntina, few day ago I bought an old sauer single shot rifle, the guy that sold it to me doesn't know much, he say that is a 9.3x72r, and that he shot some old rws ammo whtout problem.
I'm uploading some pictures here and will be very gratefully for any information.
best regardsIMG_2594.jpg

[fedearg]

IMG_2587.jpgIMG_2584.jpgIMG_2584.jpgIMG_2580.jpgIMG_2585.jpg

[mike ford]

fedearg,

Welcome, we are glad to have you with us. You are lucky to have found the nice Sauer. The proof marks include 108/49, which is the bore( not groove or bullet) diameter, as expressed by gauge measurement. This equates to about 8.89mm. This is not a nominal cartridge designation and is found on several nominal 9.3 and maybe 9mm cartridge rifles. One of these is 9.3x72R, as the seller stated. Another indication is the crown E mark, which is an "Express Proof" and often found on rifles chambered for 9.3x72R. You didn't mention handloading, but if you intend to do so, I have found that most rifles with a 108/49 marking have a groove diameter of around .364". The crown G mark means it was proofed for a single projectile (proofed to fire a bullet). The crown U is the mark for "View" proof, which is really a detailed inspection, including verification of dimensions, and performed after "Definitive" proof, which is shown by the Eagle above the "U". The two larger crowns are not proof marks, per se, but are Sauer's marks instead. The gun was proofed between early 1893, when the proof marks became required, and about 1912, when they changed from gauge measurement to mm for bore diameter. Note that the Express proof is a little heavier proof, but I didn't see a "nitro" proof mark. It would be helpful if you check the gun for additional marks which would show the proof load. If so, please post photo, if not, treat it as black powder proofed.
Mike

[fedearg]

thank you very much mike, your information is very heplfull.
I cound't fine the nitro proof mark, I'll like to hand load for it, i found 9.3x72r dies and some new rws cases, i also have some bullet 9.3 of 200gr, but i'm not sure witch gun powder use or how many grains. I had found some info in internet using 43 grains of IMR 3031 for a 200grain bullet, but that was for nitro proff rifles.
I will be glad to hear any sugestions.
Best Regards

[mike ford]

fedearg,
Handloading for your rifle will greatly increase your enjoyment. Of course there are some that insist black powder rifles should only be loaded with black powder, but I am from the "school" that prefers "Nitro for Black" loads in my black powder rifles. This is a decision only you can make. None of my 9.3x72R rifles are black powder proofed, so I don't have much experience with loads limited to black powder pressures. My cousin's 9.3x72R is black powder proofed and he uses 250 grain cast bullets and 5744 powder. I think others may use Trail Boss powder. I am working on a 10x42R and intend to try Trail Boss, but as of now I have very little experience with it. I can't recommend a load for someone else's rifle, but 12 grains of Unique or 13 grains of Red Dot behind a 200-208 grain cast bullet are commonly used loads. These light loads show pretty much variation in velocity, unless a filler is used, but there is a lot of controversy over the use of filler. That decision is another one only you can make. Before 5744, a commonly used powder for this class of loads was 4198, in appropriate weights. I don't know what kind of equipment you have available, but I use an old H&G mold #512c for a 210 gr blunt nose bullet, a Lyman 366408 mold for a 260 grain bullet, or a Lyman 366408 mold shortened enough to drop a 200 grain bullet. While my rifles have smaller bore diameters than yours, these bullets are large enough to size to .364-.366" for your rifle. It should be noted that black powder rifles used lead (either cast or swaged) bullets, usually 250-280 grains. Nitro proofed rifles used jacketed bullets, most commonly 180, 193, or 200 grains. Some of these rifles have been found to not stabilize the longer(heavy) bullets. The RWS cases are very good and are what I use. I'm sure you will find the 43gr 3031 and 200 grain bullet load is a full power load and maybe you should think twice about using it.
Good luck
Mike

[fedearg]

Thank You Mike,
I'm going to have to be carefully with the load and see what can achieve. I would like to use it at less one time for hunting wild boar, i think if i can shoot 200gr at 1900f/s will be good.
regards

[mike ford]

fedearg,
I agree, a 200gr bullet at 1900 fps is equivalent to the well known 35 Remington( actual, not advertised, velocity). This cartridge has a well deserved reputation on Deer/Bear/Boar in the American South. I would expect nothing less of the 9.3x72R.
Mike

[Axel E]

According to the S&S serial numbers published in Jim Cate's book the rifle may be dated to1893 – 1898. The 9.3x72R was originally a blackpowder cartridge. So all modern factory loads are essentially "nitro for black" loads, loaded to the low bp max pressure of 2000 bar. .45-70 max pressure is 2200 bar btw.
These pressure tested loads, published by the DEVA, may be of some help:
193 gr RWS bullet, 37 gr IMR 3031, 600 m/s = 1969 fps, pressure 1722 bar of the 2000 bar max.
193 gr RWS bullet, 46 gr VV N 140, 1969 fps also, 1667 bar

[fedearg]

thank you bouths very much, I'll start trying some loads soon and i'll keep you postn it.
Best regards