Vintage JP Sauer & Sohn Rifle

[FoxFirearms]

Hello all. Hopefully someone can help me identify this rifle. I recently acquired this JP Sauer rifle from an estate, have searched high & low online and can't find it anywhere. It has a 26" barrel, full stock, single-shot break open, set trigger, flip sight on the stock, and a shell holder in the stock. I do not know the caliber. Here are some pics. Thanks in advance.

JPS-1.jpg JPS-2.jpg JPS-3.jpg JPS-4.jpg JPS-5.jpg

[Fred]

You might send this to our inquiries address. Jim Cate, our Sauer expert, can tell you best. Fred

[mike ford]

FoxFirearms,
In addition to Jim Cate, others of us may be able to provide some information, but it will be necessary that you post photos of all the markings on the barrel, especially the proof marks( if any) on the bottom. It seems to be a nice rifle BTW.
Mike

[FoxFirearms]

Thanks for the info. I tried to post additional pics on the initial posting, but was limited to 5 pics. Here are the barrel markings...JPS-6.jpg JPS-7.jpg

[FoxFirearms]

Thanks Fred. I sent a private message to 'Jim Cate'. Is that correct, or does he have a particular user name that I should send it to? I'm not sure how to send something to the inquiries address.

[sharps4590]

I am of absolutely no help but, I do believe that is one nice rifle and congratulations are certainly in order on your acquisition. It would be interesting to see a chamber cast and slug of the bore to learn what cartridge it is chambered for.

[mike ford]

FoxFirearms,
While there is not an awful lot of information, there is some. The large crown and so called "wild man" are Sauer marks, not proof marks. The barrel withstood a provisional and a definitive proof , as shown by the eagle and crown B marks. The 10/7 is the bore( not groove or bullet) diameter, and corresponds to .421". I could be chambered for some nominal 10.8mm cartridge, like the 10.8 x 47R Martini ( only an example, this is a target cartridge, the rifle is fit up for hunting). Sharps 4590's suggestion, to make a chamber cast and "slug" the barrel, is the most reliable way to ID the actual chambering. Normally, if we find bore diameter expressed in mm, rather than gauge, we say it is post 1911. When they changed to mm, they also started to show case length. Without case length shown, I would normally think it was made during the transition period, or 1911. However, I'm not sure Sauer didn't start using mm before the other makers, so maybe it's earlier. If you have a chamber cast made and slug the bore, we can likely identify the nominal chambering.
Mike

[sharps4590]

I wondered about the 10/7 and exactly what that meant. At .421 another candidate might be the 10.5 X 47R although that's a bit bigger than mine. Off the top of my head I'm thinking my 10.5 is around .410.

The more I look at it the more I really like that rifle.

[JustFrank]

The more I look at it the more I really like that rifle.

Totally agreed, I really like this rifle as well. Thanks for sharing FoxFirearms...

[FoxFirearms]

WOW - thank you very much Mike. Just curious...is this considered a "Stalking Gun" or was it referred to as something else? Thanks again.

[FoxFirearms]

I initially wanted to sell it on Gunbroker.com or Gunauction.com (as a business, we of course buy to resell), but now I'm not so sure. I guess it would be best to identify it before trying to sell it. If anyone has an idea as to what it may be worth, that would be helpful. Thank you everyone for the info...I love to learn.

[FoxFirearms]

Glad to share JustFrank !!!!

[Axel E]

According to the Sauer & Sohn serial number list in Jim Cate's book, the rifle was started about 1903. S&S applied the serial numbers at the start of making a gun. Often guns were sitting in inventory for several years until an order came in . Only then a gun was finished and proofed to order. So it is not unusual this rifle was black powder proofed by the Suhl proofhouse in 1912 or even later. The 10.7 mm bore/land (not groove or bullet!) diameter points to one of the straight walled "11 mm LK" cartridges, still popular up to WW1. This series of cartridges came in several lengths, 50, 52, 55, 60 and 65 mm. The 11.15x65R "Drillingspatrone" seems to be the most likely, as it was offered with a "nitro for black" load then. These cartridges were still quite popular after 1900. But a chamber cast will tell. LK series cases can be made from CBC .410 brass cases or .444 Marlin brass. This hammer, single shot, break open full stocked rifle is set up in the Austrian style of an "Ischler Stutzen" as used by emperor Franz Josef for stalking in his summer hunting reserve near Bad ischl, Austria.

[mike ford]

FoxFirearms,
Yes, at least in English, the rifle would generically be known as a stalking rifle. With regard to Axel's idea that it may be one of the 11mm LK Express cartridges, you can tell whether it is in that family or the older MB family, by measuring inside the chamber. If it is one of the LKs( including the 11.15x65R "Drillingspatrone"), the chamber should be somewhere around .470" at the end of the chamber; whereas if in the MB family, it should measure around .518" in diameter. If one of the MBs, the rim recess would be deeper. This would only indicate the "family" of cases, and you would still need a chamber cast and bore slug to ID the specific nominal cartridge. Of course, there may be other less likely possibilities, that would require more that measuring the chamber to ID.
Mike

[FoxFirearms]

Thank you all for the info. Does anyone want to put a value on it? I would have no idea. Thanks again.