New member from Helena, MT

[benlamb1]

Hello,

I've been lurking here for a while, and thought I'd take the plunge. I was fortunate to have a father who loved german guns and passed on a few to me. While I'd much rather have dad back, taking his guns out in the field and to the range always brings a smile to my face.

Here's a couple of recent purchases as well as some of dad's collection:

1970's Mauser made Luger in 9mm:

luger.jpg

1936 Vintage Greifelt O/U in 12 gauge

Greifelt3.jpg

One of Dad's Drillings in 16x16x8mm JR. It's proofed from Jan 1931 near as I can tell, but no maker or marketers name appears on it.

drilling.jpg

A Mauser 98 that's been extensively messed with in 35 Whelen & what I believe is a Haenel made 1888 Commission rifle w/ the full stock in 8mm Mauser JI

mauser & haenel.jpg

Not pictured is a J.P. Sauer & Sohn sidelock drilling in 12/12/9.3x74R that needs some love from a smith to get it back on face.

[mike ford]

benlamb1,
Welcome, we are happy to have you with us. Good on you for using your dad's guns like they were intended to be used. Think how your kids(if any) will feel about having their granddad's guns when you pass them on. In the meantime you can attach your own memories to your dad's, for your kids. Was the 35 Whelen barreled in the states? Some 9x63s will accept 35 Whelen ammo. I'm sure you are correct about the Haenel. See if there is an Imperial eagle acceptance mark on the right side of the barrel and any sign of plate having been attached to the buttstock on the right side. Nice guns BTW.
Mike

[benlamb1]

benlamb1,
Welcome, we are happy to have you with us. Good on you for using your dad's guns like they were intended to be used. Think how your kids(if any) will feel about having their granddad's guns when you pass them on. In the meantime you can attach your own memories to your dad's, for your kids. Was the 35 Whelen barreled in the states? Some 9x63s will accept 35 Whelen ammo. I'm sure you are correct about the Haenel. See if there is an Imperial eagle acceptance mark on the right side of the barrel and any sign of plate having been attached to the buttstock on the right side. Nice guns BTW.
Mike

Hi Mike,

The Whelen was rebarreled about 6 years ago by Dennis Erhardt of Helena. The rifle was in tough shape with the scope mount holes being hogged out & the original barrel had a lot of free bore. Dad had the chamber cast back in the late 60's and it came up as a 35 whelen and the fired case had the same dimensions as well but you never know. My maternal grandfather picked it up somewhere in Pennsylvania in the late 60's and sent it to Dad. I still have the original barrel, which we patterned the new one off of. Dennis did great work with the rifle, and it's a hammer on whitetail, yet not been blooded on elk yet. I'm shooting the 250 grain roundnose Hornady bullet at about 2500 FPS right under an inch & tinkering with some loads using the 225 grain TSX Barnes that so far haven't produced the accuracy I'm looking for.

A couple more shots of the Mauser:

IMG_0392.jpg

IMG_0396.jpg

A shot of the proof marks on the original barrel, the only other markings are electric pencil scrawled 35 Whelen & Germany:

mauser bbl original.jpg

Here are some shots of the proof marks on the Haenel:

88Com9.jpg

88Com10.jpg

[mike ford]

Ben,
The original proof marks for the Mauser show it was proofed in May 1921with ledger number 295, at the Zella-Mehilis Proof house. The bore( not groove or bullet)diameter was measured by the proof house as 8.7mm. The measurement was done with plug gauges with 0.1mm steps. The bore diameter, then would have more precisely between 8.70mm and 8.79mm. We see this diameter barrel in rifles for nominal calibers of both 9 and 9.3mm. With only this information, the rifle could have originally been chambered in 9x57( if rechambered in US w/o marking) or 9x63, or 9.3x62mm. There is an indistinct mark next to the 8.7, which I guessed was mm, but could have been some number representing the chamber length. The nitro proof mark is also here, making it impossible to read. If you can, somehow magnify it and under strong light, find the case length, maybe I can make a better "guess" as to the original nominal caliber.

With regard to the Haenel, it was proofed between early 1893( when the 1891 proof law came into effect) and 1912( when improvements to the 1891 law were made, changing some markings), as shown by the bore( not groove or bullet) diameter being expressed by the gauge measurement 172/28 ( which works out to 7.62 mm) that is common on 8mm nominal rifles. It also shows the nitro proof, having been proofed with the "4000 atmosphere powder"( government smokeless powder, reaching 58,000 psi), this mark is the crown N next to a larger crown. It was likely proofed in Suhl, which can be confirmed if you can find the word "Nitro" in block letters. Zella-Mehilis used script letters for this.

There is no doubt your rifle will be great on Elk also.
Mike

[benlamb1]

Many thanks, Mike!

Here's a close up of the Mauser bbl. The marks next to caliber do seem to be MM markings.

IMG_20180409_085745.jpg

I'll dig out the Haenel and take a look to see if I can find the Nitro markings. It's a neat gun - Dad bought it at a gunshow around 1972 or so, and after I took possession of it, I found a note in the buttstock from the son of the soldier who brought it back from WW2. It's a nice, light carbine that I wish I could get to shoot well. So far, I'm not having much luck with the 200 grain Woodleighs though.

[mike ford]

Ben,
Woodleighs are very good hunting bullets, but are pretty pricey for general use and targets. I often advise that if a bullet will fit into a fired case, it can be used in that rifle. M88s, usually can use either .321 or .323 bullets, but even though your Haenel is a Mod 88 action, the rifle was born as a civilian and might not have military chamber dimensions. I think it is possible that a 32 Win. Spec. .321" bullet might be useable in your rifle. If not, they can be sized to .318 and used anyway. I size .321 bullets to .318 for rifles that won't accept .321 bullets. It is very flexible to be able to do this( also .323 bullets can be successfully sized to .318). I have been pretty anxious for someone to try the new .32 Win. Spec. Flextip bullet in 8mm J bore rifle. I suspect it will do well. Good luck with both projects.
Mike

[benlamb1]

The rear trigger on the Haenel isn't setting the front trigger, so it needs to go to the smith. I'll have him cast the chamber & slug the bore to see what exactly we're dealing with. It would be wonderful if I could use the .321 or even .323 bullets for this. The woodlieghs are expensive, albeit quite pretty.

[mike ford]

Ben,
Many times the screw behind the front trigger is misunderstood and seen as an adjustment of "pull" for the unset trigger and adjusted until it will not hold when you pull the rear trigger. I suggest you check this before you take it to your gunsmith. Several of my guns have come to me like that(more single set triggers, but some double set), so it will be worth checking. On the otherhand, I have seen them with the small spring missing or the sear notch broken. You don't really need a chamber cast to find out if you can use the other bullets. If you have an unsized fired case, simply see if the other bullets slip easily into the neck. If it does, that means the case will expand enough to release the bullet when fired and not drive the pressures up. If you change cases, you should check each type. If you use 8mm factory and cases made from 30-06 or 270, the self made cases may have thicker necks.
Mike

[benlamb1]

Thanks Mike. I'll try to adjust the screw. That sounds precisely like what's occuring. I've got some fired cases & a few .323 diameter bullets. I do have a ton of 165 grain .321's for my 32-40 if I need to go that route as well.