New guy from Virginia

[Tmat89]

Hello all, I inherited a German rifle from my uncle and I would like to know more about.
It is a single octagonal barrel loaded from the breech. The barrel has Suhl on one side and Imman Meffert on the other. It also has several proof marks on the underside. I will try and post some pictures if I can figure out how.

[mike ford]

Tmat89,
Welcome, we are happy to have you with us. Your rifle is a very common type, chambered for a pretty uncommon caliber cartridge. The barrel has a bore( not groove or bullet) diameter of 8.53 mm and accepts some case that is 27mm long. This would place the cartridge in a class of cartridges known as "Tesching", or Salon/Garden rifle. Our British friends have a similar class of cartridges, called "Rook" cartridges. Such a cartridge would likely be named something close to 9x27R, but I have not been able to find it in "Dixon". I will continue the search, in other sources. Our technical advisor, Axel, may know the cartridge. This info comes from the Proof Mark 8,53/27. The other mark, 4.11, indicates it was proofed in April 1911. The crown B indicates a single definitive proof, with the provisional proof load. The crown G indicates it was proofed for a single projectile( bullet). The crown U shows it went through a "View" proof, which included a detailed inspection and verification of dimensions. The load it was proofed for was 0.6 grams of flake rifle powder, and a steel jacketed bullet. This is a nitro proof, as shown by the crown N, as well as powder type and a jacketed bullet. Such a proof, I believe, would be uncommon for a " Tesching" cartridge; and causes doubt as to the nominal caliber. Therefore, it will be necessary for you to make, or have someone else make a chamber cast; and "slug" the barrel for a more definitive assessment. Imman. Meffert was a well known Suhl gunmaker, but this type rifle was usually made and proofed in Zella-Mehlis. Consequently, I believe your rifle was made by some maker in Zella-Mehlis for marketing by Meffert; if not fully finished, then ready for finishing by Meffert. As always, I may be wrong; if so, someone will provide correct information.
Mike

[Axel E]

Mike, the bore diameter does not read 8.53 mm, but 353, a gauge number for 6.0 = 236" to 6.25 mm = .246", #313. That's the bore/land, not groove/bullet diameter of course. As the rifle was Zella – Mehlis proofed 4.11 = April 1911, it is one of the last rifles marked with a gauge number by the Z-M proofhouse. The smokeless service load is given as a St.m.G. = steel jacketed bullet in front of 0.6 gramm = 9.3 gr smokeless rifle powder. So the rifle was originally chambered for the 6.5x27R "P Tesching" cartridge. The 1930s RWS andDWM load was: 82 gr bullet, 7.7 gr T1912 powder, for 1575 fps. Cases can be fabricated from .38 Sp or .357 brass. If you can find them, .22 Jet or .256 Win Mag cases may be even better. Use .257" bullets.
Certainly the rifle was made by one of the Z –M gunmakers specializing in such rifles, like Paatz, and was bought in by Meffert.

[mike ford]

Axel,
Thanks, your eyes must be younger than mine. Also I didn't expect a gauge measurement, even though it was right at the time they were changing over, because the case length was noted. I had seen mm bore diameters w/o case length, but this is my first gauge bore diameter with a case length. At least the 6.5x27R is known to me.
Mike

[Axel E]

this is my first gauge bore diameter with a case length.

A first one for me too! bBTW, I don't have younger eyes. But I missed some logic in a combination of a queer 853 mm bore diameter, missing a comma and with two decimals, a steel jacketed bullet and a tiny charge of smokeless rifle powder. So I looked into the old proof tables and found gauge number 353, fitting a 6.5x27R.

[Tmat89]

The barrel has HUBERTUS on the bottom of that makes identification any easier. I also thank all of you for your replies. Also I would like to know if anyone on this forum can repair the stock as it is cracked.

[Axel E]

"Hubertus" was an Immanuel Meffert trademark for guns. Other companies used a "Hubertus" trademark too, F.I. the Hubertus – Kuno Ritter cutlery works, Solingen, for knifes, or the Hubertus game call company. Saint Hubertus, c. 656 – 727 AD, is venerated as a patron saint of hunters.

[Tmat89]

Do you have any idea how much it is worth? I would like to sell at a very reasonable price to someone who would appreciate it .

[mike ford]

Tmat89,
While I don't usually estimate the value of someone else's gun, that I don't have "in hand", I offer the following. Don't use auction site prices of those guns that have a "minimum", and haven't sold. I have seen guns on certain sites for years, because they were overpriced. Use prices for guns that have actually sold, either "open auction" or fixed price on other sites. Even with these, you should consider relative condition, availability of ammunition, and usefulness of the particular caliber. For instance, rifles like this were available in certain calibers for which ammo is available, including some American calibers, such as 22 rimfire or 22Hornet. These would sell for more than one that must be handloaded for, with extensive case forming operations. Those that must be handloaded for, but with available or easily formed cases( 8.15x46R, 8x57R/360, etc) will sell for more than the others. Some are available in calibers useable for deer hunting( such as 9.3x72R).These would likely sell for the most. Your rifle is chambered for a caliber that may be difficult to form cases for( on the other hand, cases ruined in the process are easily replaced). As an offset, 60gr or 86gr 25-20 bullets would work well. From the photo, your rifle seems to have condition issues, with the stock, while exterior metal surfaces seem fine. If this were my rifle, I would keep, and use it- even without the family connection.
Mike

[Tmat89]

Thanks Mike for the information. I think I'll take your advice and have some work done on the stock and keep it unless I can find a good home for it. I'm not much on reloading and I would much rather see it go to someone who would appreciate it.
Thanks again,
Tmat