Howdy from Troy, Montana

[CoyoteJoe]

Thanks for admitting me to your site. I've always believed German guns bespoke quality. Many years ago I owned an old Ed Kettner hammer drilling in 16 over 9.3x72R. I'm sorry I ever parted with it but at the time I felt that any rifle without a scope was incomplete (still kind of do), so I traded it off for something unmemorable. I also owned a fine Walther Sport model .22 and don't know what I traded that for either. My latest acquisition will be mine to the grave.
I have always admired the German stalking rifle and finally found a great one. It's a Franz Kettner 6.5X52R which I feel will be a fine rifle for whitetails here in the dense forest of northwestern Montana. I've had no luck in searching for 6.5X52R ammo but did find Hornady 25/35 brass and have been shooting groups and chronographing loads for 25/35 with bullets of 117 gr., 87 gr. and 75gr..
I have always been under the impression the 6.5X52R was just the European designation for 25/35 but some say that is not true, just wondering. I can say for certain that the Hornady 25/35 brass and Lee 25/35 dies work fine both in this Franz Kettner rifle and in a very battered old 94 Winchester built in 1897. Brass fired in the Winchester must be full length resized before it will fit the Kettner but fired brass needs only neck sizing to fit the rifle in which it was first fired.
I'd like to learn more about my rifle and whether or not the 25/35 & 6.5X52R truly were meant to be interchangeable. Thank, in advance for your replies.

[Diz]

CoyoteJoe,

Welcome to the forum. That's a couple of fine looking guns you have there. Anyone would be happy with them. I just couldn't get the images to open for some reason even so you can see they are very nice.

Both of my reference books show only the slightest difference between the two cartridges measurement wise. Just a thousandth or two here and there. However, when I checked the pressure ratings between the two there is quite a difference. The data I have shows the Pmax or Maximum Average Pressure is rated by the Piezo CIP method for both these cartridges. The 25-35 Winchester is rated at 44,236 psi while the 6.5X52R is rated at 35,534 psi. A difference of 8,702 psi. It is enough to get my attention especially when using it in a break open rifle. That and one reference show the bullet in the 6.5 as .259" diameter not .257" as in the 25-35. Perhaps slugging the bore would help clear that up.

I hope that someone here with more experience with these cartridges can elaborate further.

Good luck with your rifle, Diz

[mike ford]

CoyoteJoe,
According to "WIEDERLADEN"( 1989 issue), the 6.5x52R is nothing other than the metric version of the 25-35 Winchester, but acknowledged that the loadings are different, as Diz reported. It is not clear that this was always the case, or that if different, that the difference was always as great as it is now. It has been acknowledged that post war loadings( and I guess max. pressures) for some older cartridges were reduced, out of an abundance of caution for older rifles that may not have been stored under the best conditions while possession of firearms was prohibited. Keep in mind also that while the current maximum pressures are mandatory under the law, in previous times, this was not the case and different companies may have loaded to different pressure standards. This just means that it will be up to you, whether you use 25-35 Win.( which is likely loaded to less than max. pressure), at all, sometimes, or always. None of us can make this decision for you. If the sights on your rifle are original, they will tell you whether the rifle likes the 25-35 or not. Like Diz, I couldn't get the images to open, but from what I can see, I believe your particular rifle is made on one of the stronger actions, used for this class of cartridges. If you choose to load your own ammo, you can reform plentiful 30-30 cases in standard loading dies and American bullets, powders, and primers will work very well. I'm jealous of you, for owning that fine rifle.
Mike

[mike ford]

CoyoteJoe,
According to "WIEDERLADEN"( 1989 issue), the 6.5x52R is nothing other than the metric version of the 25-35 Winchester, but acknowledged that the loadings are different, as Diz reported. It is not clear that this was always the case, or that if different, that the difference was always as great as it is now. It has been acknowledged that post war loadings( and I guess max. pressures) for some older cartridges were reduced, out of an abundance of caution for older rifles that may not have been stored under the best conditions while possession of firearms was prohibited. Keep in mind also that while the current maximum pressures are mandatory under the law, in previous times, this was not the case and different companies may have loaded to different pressure standards. This just means that it will be up to you, whether you use 25-35 Win.( which is likely loaded to less than max. pressure), at all, sometimes, or always. None of us can make this decision for you. If the sights on your rifle are original, they will tell you whether the rifle likes the 25-35 or not. Like Diz, I couldn't get the images to open, but from what I can see, I believe your particular rifle is made on one of the stronger actions, used for this class of cartridges. If you choose to load your own ammo, you can reform plentiful 30-30 cases in standard loading dies and American bullets, powders, and primers will work very well. I'm jealous of you, for owning that fine rifle.
Mike

[CoyoteJoe]

Thanks for the replies and sorry about the photos, I'm pretty much technologically challenged, I'll try a couple more here. I do think this is a good strong action but I have no desire to push the limits of pressure. I have noticed that the Sellier & Bellot 6.5X52R load produces about the same ballistics as Winchester's 25/35 load but I can't find the pressure of either one.

[CoyoteJoe]

I still don't know what's up with the photos but I'll try again.

[CoyoteJoe]

I still don't know what's up with the photos but I'll try again.

[mike ford]

CoyoteJoe,
I think it has been pretty well established that the problem is with the forum, and nothing you did wrong'
Mike

[CoyoteJoe]

Thanks mike ford, I couldn't think of anything else to try anyway. LOL